Become Who You Are
What’s the meaning and purpose of my life? What is my true identity? Why were we created male and female? How do I find happiness, joy and peace? How do I find love that lasts, forever? These are the timeless questions of the human heart. Join Jack Rigert and his guests for lively insights, reading the signs of our times through the lens of Catholic Teaching and the insights of Saint John Paul ll to guide us.
Saint Catherine of Siena said "Become who you are and you would set the world on fire".
Become Who You Are
#673 From Hot Takes To Holy Habits: Why Formation And Prayer Must Shape Digital Evangelists with Podcast Host Bobby Fredericksen
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Let’s be honest: the internet rewards outrage, not holiness. We wanted to cut through the noise and ask a harder question—what does it take to share the faith without losing your soul? With Bobby Frederickson (The Catholic Couple, Purposely Catholic), we dig into the quiet practices and gritty virtues that turn zeal into steady witness: daily silence, repentance when pride flares, and a home life that looks like love in action.
Here are the links to Jack's Substack "Christ Appeals to the Resurrection"
We're being joined by Bobby Frederickson. He's back to the show again. I asked him to come on because we have so many young people joining us. Questions about where they can get information, who they should listen to, who they are getting the bad information from. It's a uh it can be a confusing time out there for young people, Bobby. You spoke about this and you wrote about this uh in the Catholic Exchange, influencers versus Saints, why teaching the faith requires character, formation, and maturity. So thank you for writing that. Thanks for coming back on the show. Tell us a little bit about what you were thinking.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thanks for having me, Jack. Appreciate it. Yeah, it's weighing on my soul because I'm in that space. And I have to be reminded constantly as a convert and somebody who was very prideful and who was chasing those things of the world. And now that I'm Catholic, those don't just go away overnight. Those are that's the root of most sin is pride. And for me, it was definitely you know at the center of my life uh before I became Catholic, and I had to fight that. So I had to do that examination myself and looking back in my journey, making sure and always starting my day in prayer and remembering why I do what I do. And as you know, more people follow the podcast and Instagram and stuff like that, it's really easy to like look how great I am. They just love me so much, versus no, it's the message, obviously, it's the power of the gospel. So it's been on front and center of my mind. But then we've also seen when I wrote that article, there were some controversies going on with some people who you know are out front and who are very popular online, and there was a couple scandals going on. And that got me to thinking like, well, just anybody and everybody who picks up a cell phone or has a computer can be an evangelist, could be an apologist, could be somebody teaching the faith. And with that comes responsibility, and we have to be careful of who we're following, who we're listening to, and those who are behind the microphone that we are doing our due diligence to stay in a state of grace, to not lead people astray and not to scandalize the church.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's a balance, isn't it? Because I know for in your in your own personal story, you're a convert, you got all excited and pumped up, and in a way you want to just share the gospel, right? And you we can do that. We can share, hey, something happened to my heart, man, boom, boom, boom. But when it comes to the core basic teaching of the church, that's where we got to be a little uh careful, don't we?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for me, it it was that zealousness that I wanted to just share everything I knew. But like I write in the article that if I would have done that when I first became Catholic, I was very excited, and that's half the equation to have the passion for it. The other one is to be formed, and that's what I talked about. And in my journey, I was humbled. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm a I'm a new Catholic, right? I I read the catechism. I went to uh RCIA at the time, and I'm like, okay, I know enough. I I can start telling people, you know, it's like, okay, but the more you start to read and start to understand, it's like there's so much I don't know. And the more even today, studying it every single day, all the time, I'm just like, I'm still learning. But it wasn't just that intellectual formation that I needed. It was a spiritual, emotional in my relations, physical, it all connected. And especially with young people, which is important, we need young people to speak to young people. That really does help because they see themselves uh a little bit more, they can relate to those people, but they don't have a lot of life experience. They haven't gone through much. Like, you know, the people that I look up to are those who have kids who have, you know, suffered and suffered well and persevered. And to me, getting married and having a family is, you know, Jesus set it up that way, is why? Because I have to die to myself a thousand times every day. I have to be humbled all day long by my kids and my wife, reminding me that I come last. And people who are in that in the journey and and who are married and who are doing it well, those are the people that I look up to, and that's who I aspire to be, or those people who are maybe not so great at you know, creating content or editing or having the best apologetics, but those people who know how to suffer well and who are leading their family, their kids are still going to mass, they they're joyful, they're full of the Lord, they're serving, and but they're also still, you know, genuinely themselves. They're not, you know, strange or just sitting in the church all day. They're they're where they're at, but doing that well and bringing Jesus to where they're at.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I was just on a podcast with uh with Charles Frawney, who wrote the most powerful saints and exorcisms.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we had him on too. He's good.
SPEAKER_01:Did you? Yeah. And he talked about, and I wonder if he did it with you, he talked about the problem with so many marriages and families and the dysfunction today. And he said, Oh, sister Sister Lucia, who I often quote, said the last great battle's gonna be between our Lord and Satan is gonna be over marriage and the family. And he said, He said, You're really seeing this today. So what you said is so important for men to hear in general. You put yourself last. Can you really do that, Bobby? I know you try, but that's not that's not easy to do. I I was at a a pretty good sized meeting with men. My table was made up of about eight or ten men. Man, if they talk about the the problems in their marriages. And these are fairly young guys maybe up into their thirties, and maybe even a little beyond that, some of 'em. Really talking about these battles going on. And and I think what you just said, can to put yourself last and really see family and marriages uh as is as something we serve as part of our vocation. But uh how do you do that? How do you live that out?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I love that we did a video about that there's a Croatian tradition, uh, when they get married, they bring a cross, and then they both put their hands on the cross, symbolizing that we are to to die to each other, and then they take that cross and they put it in their their bedroom or a place of honor in their house to remind us of what that looks like. Jesus gave it that example we hear in Ephesians, you know, die to your bride, you know, like Christ died for his church. And what does that look like for me? My wife is a principal, so she is extremely busy. And I work 7 to 3 Monday through Friday, so I have a little bit more time. You know, her schedule never stops. So for me, that's picking up the kids anytime I can, getting home, straightening up the house, doing the dishes, starting dinner, uh, you know, picking up, picking up extra slack because she's under tremendous, you know, demands from parents, teachers, students, curriculum, all these things that she's got going on. My job's not so demanding. It's like seven to three, then it's done. So I don't have anything hanging over. So for me, I would rather go do things that I want to do after work. I'd rather go hang out with my buddies or go to the gym or go play pickleball or whatever it may be, do more podcasts, do whatever that may be. So instead, I have to put things in in you know in perspective to know that, you know, I what's you ever see the movie The Breakup in Chicago of Vince Wan? So there's this great scene in the movie, and when I first remember it. Yeah, well, there's this great scene, and when I first became Catholic, I like laughed at the scene because it's it's kind of ridiculous. It's she asked, they're breaking up, and she, and this is like right before the breakup, she's asking him to go get these lemons and to go do the dishes because she they're trying to have this dinner party. And he forgot the lemons, and then he said they're doing the dishes, and she's like, No, I want you to want to do the dishes. And he's like, Why would I want to do the dishes? And that to me was like, Yeah, that's it's stupid, it doesn't make sense. But the reason why I would come home and there's a pile of dishes and do the dishes, not because it's my wife's job, I don't try to say that that's the only the woman's job, but that it's obviously our job, but I want to do it so that she doesn't have to do it. Yeah, and and I want to want to do it for that reason, so she doesn't have to. Not because I enjoy doing dishes, even though I worked as a dishwasher in high school and I know how to do dishes. But the point is that when you love somebody, you're dying to yourself, you know, you want to free up space for them so they don't have to do that. And in turn, she does the same for me when it's when she can. And my kids, we're teaching them to what that looks like, and everybody pitching in and doing those things. But dying to ourselves is tough because that's the root of sin is selfishness. We want what's best for us. And that which brings us to this conversation about influencers is that there is that balance between being out front. I create a podcast, you have a podcast. Well, what good is a podcast if nobody listens to it?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So you have to be out there and promoting yourself. So it's a it's a it's a tension that we have. It's like, if I'm not for myself, who will be? But if I'm only for myself, who am I? I'm doing it for God, right? But I have to still be out front. But if we're going to be out front, it takes a lot of prayer, of responsibility, because there is a temptation. The devil will snatch you and he will use that to try to sow seeds of how great you are and to bring the world into that instead of doing it for the right reasons. So it is attention, but it's like, why write a book? Why do any of these things? You have to still be out front a little bit to promote it, market it so people actually listen to it, watch it, read it. But there's doing it for the right reasons. And for me, that's prayer. Every time before we get behind the microphone or we do anything that's out outward facing, that we spend time in silence and prayer instead of just focusing on a hot take or this brand or this thing that I have. It's like, no, this is for the glory of God. This is to try to bring people closer to to Christ, this is to bring more people into his church, whatever that may be, but keep in that perspective.
SPEAKER_01:You mentioned in the article that this is scriptural. That you know that you can't not everybody is a teacher, not everybody's supposed to be out there uh teaching the faith. And if you're going to, you have a responsibility to know that faith. And that's where you get it from. I think if all of us th those little things that you just mentioned, service, if every single person took that prayer seriously, studied their faith, and then went out and served others, I think you know, you you get that deeper perspective and you start to see the suffering in people and individual people. You see the the battle, the spiritual battle going on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and for me, you know, sometimes it it it it takes a while. You know, I I was praying about you know, God was put on my heart to lead a men's Bible study. And as a convert, I'm like, well, I don't know. And you're a doer, Bobby. I I just can't stop. So I got so many things going on, but I'm like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I want to bring this up, yeah, is that you're still talking about this as a doer and still coming back. If if most people would understand that service aspect, if I spend ten minutes a day, fifteen minutes a day, doing something that my wife would appreciate, helping her somehow, that doesn't take much time. But it's a big effect on our relationship.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and what really has changed my life though is starting in the morning ten minutes, like not an hour, just ten minutes before I do anything, and reading scripture, meditating, and letting God speak to me and talking to him and listening. You know, like what do you want me to do? You know, like I I there's a million things I want to do. You know, but but it's like when we spend time in prayer, God can, you know, he takes, you know, the the St. Francis de Sale code is like everybody needs a half hour of prayer a day, unless you're really busy, then you need an hour. Because what he does is he takes that time that we give to him and he helps us focus and laser in what he wants for us instead of all the noise of all the things that we could be doing, because everything is pawing at our attention from our cell phones to our work to our kids to whatever. But I try to be intentional about like following God, what do you want me to do? So he was putting on my heart men's Bible study. This was like five years ago. And I'm like, well, I'm not quite there yet. So I said, well, this is what I'll do, God. I'm gonna immerse myself in scripture. And we'll we'll keep having this conversation. And when you think I'm ready, we'll do it. And you know, so I committed to doing that and studying scripture, you know, Bible in the year. I did, I'm on my fifth time through Bible in the year. I've read, you know, the whole Bible many times. I'm reading multiple books on the Bible all the time. I'm reading, listening all day long. That's what I do. So I wanted to be prepared, not what I think about it. Like you said, everyone's got an opinion, but what do the early church fathers teach? What's the catechism say? What does people like Fulton Sheen say, who's a modern mystic to me? What does you know uh St. Augustine say? Yeah, it's like so. I'm trying to bring all this in and then some of my own experiences where I can lead it. So uh uh almost two months ago, I started a men's Bible study, and the first night, you know, 35 guys showed up. I'm like, whoa. And this is eight o'clock at night on a Monday night. Wow. So there's a hunger for it, but I wanted to make sure that I was intellectually formed, spiritually, emotionally. Like I said, I'm doing two podcasts. I I lead another men's group. I help lead a big connect group. I I'm a coach of seventh grade girls volleyball. Like I work full-time, like I work out five days a week. I have a lot of things going on. And today I'm off because it's Columbus Day. Uh, so I'm here with you. So it's like, man, I'm busy. I got another podcast right after this. I got another podcast, I got to go to coach. But my point was is that I didn't just say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. You can't just say yes. All the things I'm saying yes to is that I prayed about and asked God, do you want me to do it? And we see what happens in scripture with David. As he's going through his life, every time David, before he does something, he asks God, Should I go do this? Should I take this hill? Should I fight the Philistines? Should I not? And then his life starts going apart when he stops asking God, should I do this? Next thing you know, he's taking a siesta on the roof and he's lusting after Bathsheba and then his son, like everything starts to go downhill from there because he stops asking God what he what he should do. And so that's how I'm trying to radically live my life. I'm not perfect, but when I start my day with the scripture, when I do Lexio and I ask him, and then I I do daily mass, you know, and then I take it to there, and I just really meditate on it, and we we see the things that really don't matter so much kind of melt away, and the things that he really is calling you to starts to those pathways and those doors start to open up. And I think we can take that advice, especially for people who are out front who are so-called influencers, who are want to share the faith. It's like, well, does God want you to talk about that, or are you just trying to get a hot take to try to cause a controversy? Are you trying to, you know, divide or are you trying to unite? You know, because there are a lot of people who get very popular really quick by their whole stance of, well, the Pope said this and he's a heretic, or the church says this, or pre-Vatican II that. I I I think that we are called to unite, you know, not just between Catholics, but between Protestants and Catholics as well. I think he, you know, Jesus' last prayer that we would be one. So I and as a convert, I feel called that we need to be one. And I I was really struck by a quote that I saw from the the recent saint, Saint Blessed Carlo Acudis, who said, He who criticizes the church criticizes himself. And it takes a lifetime to think about that.
SPEAKER_01:So like when we And I think you have to make a distinction there again for these young guys coming into the church because they're trying to find the truth, Bobby. You know, these are young guys, Gen Z. We we we Gen Z actually runs fourteen to say twenty-seven, but we start them up at seventeen uh uh into their thirties. So we stretch it a little bit on on the on the age, you know. But they're there came they're coming into the church, they're seeking the truth. They want the truth. Now, when I say that, and I think the distinction I wanted to make is that when we're talking about the church and unifying in the church, we still have to speak the truth of the of what the church is. And depending on where we're at and what we do, like for me, it is important for me to point out when somebody says something here uh uh heretical that disturbs our audience. In other words, they have questions. You know, is is uh is uh homosexual marriage, same sex marriage, is that really okay in the church? Because they heard it from some pastor or whatever. You know what I mean? So I just want to make those distinctions, but we have to be careful because we're not out there just to pound them, right? Even those people are loved by Christ. Uh we just have to say, here's here's church teaching on that, and try to do it in a in a generous uh way, and God is a God of mercy and forgiveness. The prodigal son, you know, inviting us all in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we have to be like the saints, you know, clarity with charity, truth and love are not divorced from each other. And we can lead people to the truth without beating them over the head with it and making them feel like they're they're worthless. And I think that it depends on the relationship that we have for people, but going online and and just criticizing the Pope, oh okay, but do you know anything about like have you could you imagine being the Pope? Like, like I understand there's some things that he says that I disagree with, but that isn't my my sole purpose of what I think about what the Pope should be doing. Like, regardless of what it is, it's God's will. God put him there for the right reasons at the for the the right the right time. Like, I who who am I? Who am I to say that? Not to say that we we can't judge people, I can have opinions, but if that's all I talk about 24-7 and not talk about, well, what could we do? We should pray for the Pope, we should fast, we should do those kinds of things. Not like, hey, look at me and how smart I am, and I got this great hot take, and everybody bash and cause division. Like, hey, well, what does the church actually say or things like that? We could talk about the catechism, talk about things like that, but not focus so much on what I think, but what the church has taught through the ages. And and it is a thin line because there the you know, the parts of the Bible that are hard are hard for a reason. We can't just get rid of those things and ignore them and when people go against them. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there are people that make their brand doing those things only. There are there are, you know, we're called to in 1 Peter 3, we be ready to give a defense for the reason for the hope that you have, but do it with charity. And the hope is is Christ and and in his church. So it's like, yes, let's lead with the truth, but it just depends on the relationship that we have. Like hitting people over the head in the comment boxes on on TikTok or Instagram probably is not going to convert anybody. But if you have a coworker who has questions that you already have a relationship where you started talking about sports and weather, and now you're close enough where he's coming to you with questions, okay, then you you know you'll you you can give him the straight truth. But because he knows you and you have built that trust and you have a relationship, then you can start. It's like, do you want to be effective or you just want to be right? Sometimes we just want to be, look how smart we are, look how right I am. But it's like, well, what what what good is that though? At the end of the day, uh you know, I find that in in my marriage. Like I a lot of times I want to be right, but sometimes we gotta be smart and right.
SPEAKER_01:I I I made a point of uh that with these guys that I was just with, I said, you know, there's there's something that I've learned i and it's to bite my tongue at certain points. You have to pick your battles and you have to say, hey, is there some is is this a time that I really need to make this distinction? But you're right. You have to have a relationship first, I I would think, you know. You know, when I look at people now, Bobby, with all of the suffering people go through, I look at them uh, you know, as a young child. I this is what I've been doing lately. Even I can look at you, he was a young boy at some point, you know, trying to find the right way, trying to do the right thing. People have brought him off uh the path in so many different ways. And w you know, we've been sexually abused, the porn, the all the garbage thrown at us. It takes a little while to unwind that stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's uh the people come with a lot of baggage. You know, we hear the saying, hurt people, hurt people. You know, and that's the first thing I try to remember is when someone's being hurtful or saying something to me that's not nice. I just think, well, there's a reason behind there. So he's hurting. There's something there deeper. But we're always so quick to react or to to do those things instead of stop, reflect, pray. God, how do you want me to handle the situation? And it's tough. It's a lot easier said than done, you know, especially with my children who want to talk back and don't want to do what I tell them to do when I want them to do it immediately, go do that. And then I think back like, I was that brat kid, and this is you know, God's pay it forward. Like, hey, remember how you were, you know, to try to think like, okay, this is what I was thinking when I was like putting myself in my kids' shoes, you know, especially in this topsy turvy world that they're they're living in, to try to see, you know, the world through the eyes of a kid sometimes. You have to do that instead of I'm in charge, do what I say. You know, like that's our temptation because that's how my dad parented. I'm like, you know, it was I would have wanted it to be a little bit different, you know. So not to be a pushover and and to keep that line, to train them up and to be obedient, things like that, but also to see the world through their eyes. And that helps me become a better parent. And that's the same with all the people that we interact with, is to understand that there is a story, whether that's same-sex attraction, whether that's, you know, somebody who's a staunch atheist, you know, but they were probably hurt by somebody, somebody who was a church person, somebody who really rubbed them the wrong way, who believed in God and presented the faith in a in a way that wasn't nice. So we have to see the world sometimes if we want to actually convert people, change people to help other people get to heaven. You know, our goal, I write in that article, shouldn't be influence, it should be helping people get to heaven. That should be the goal. And if we want that to be true, then we have to meet people where they're at. I really love have you ever read the book by Sherry Waddell, Forming Intentional Disciples?
SPEAKER_01:I I I read parts of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, there's, you know, there's there's five steps on this path. And that's like build, like I was talking about, those relationships, building that trust. And depending on where you're at with that person, you know, whether if they're actually curious or there's that trust built there, then there's those steps. Like you have you can't jump to the last step and expect them to receive the gospel and hit them over the head. I always say we're we're called to to throw seeds, not logs, at people. We throw those seeds and then we pray for them and let God water it and in his timing and his way. But a lot of times we just want them so bad to convert, to believe what the church says, and we're hitting them over the head with a log instead of just throwing seeds to them and letting, you know, let them try to receive it, you know, like all of sin is grasping at which we should receive and letting them to receive it instead of us forcing it down their throat.
SPEAKER_01:I think those are such good points. And I think what happens when you have a podcast, you know, you're not sitting there with these people, you're not having that relationship. I think it's that's where that experience comes in, where I can bring my experience of dealing with people and then relate that on a on a show, right? To be able to talk about those issues. The best thing is the Socratic method, right? Bobby, tell me about your life, man. Tell me how you got here, blah, blah, blah. And then while I'm while you're saying that, I'm praying, Bobby. I'm saying, Holy Spirit, if you want me to say something, tell me what to say. And Bobby, I if I don't hear it, I don't say much. In other words, I just listen and what I've learned to do is pray and then the words will come. The words will come. But I think sometimes we need to we're we're trying to fill the space or provide answers when we don't have it. Uh and I think on a podcast you're just spewing it out sometimes to your point. And you're what they're not watching the reaction of of that you know, looking into their eyes and see them as human beings. And I think that happens often.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think you make a good point. And as far as like people we should be following and people we should be listening to, especially on the internet, are people who have a foot in both, you know, in both in the digital world, but also who are living their life in the real world with real people. Like for me, it is a life of ministry in the church. And this is just an extension of the ministry that I already do. But there are a lot of people who just get on the microphone and talk, but they don't have experience with real people in real situations. Because if they do, they see that it is messy and it is dirty, and there's a lot of mental illness, and there's a lot of problems, and there's a lot of sin and there's a lot going on. And when you start to to minister to people in the real world, you you can be have a little bit more empathy for those who are online. Because let's just be honest, people wouldn't say the things they say online if they're in person to me. Some of the things that people say to me online, I guarantee they wouldn't say it to my face when they seen me because they they just wouldn't, because most people don't. And that's part of the thing we have to remember. So when people go on there, they're they're they're tough and stuff like that. But and really in actuality, when you when you talk to somebody in person, it really does teach you how to be online because when you actually interact with real people in real time, it it's it it's difficult. And it takes prayer, like you said, to when you're talking, to know when to say something, when not to say something is mostly my thing because I talk so much. It's like I just want to say everything and I just want to give them the answers, and I just want to help them, and I know what they're going through, and I I can really help you instead of really most of the time what people want is to be listened to. Especially older people. Like I've worked the phones for years in customer service, and you know, I work for the city, so people will call in, I got a problem with this alley or this thing. And and most of the time, as long as the phone's not ringing off the hook, I just listen. And by the end of the conversation, well, thank you so much for listening to me. People really want to be listened to. But what I think we get it wrong, especially in faith, is by listening to people, people think that we agre I agree with you. And that's kind of subconsciously what the people who are talking think. Like when you listen to somebody, they see that you're kind of on their side, not necessarily that you're agreeing with them, but you respect them enough to listen to their point of view. And then after that, then you you can you know jump back in. But a lot of this in our in our faith tradition is listening to people. You know, we should be doing that. But unfortunately, for so many years, the faith has only just been me telling you what the church thinks, and that's it. Well, that's what the Bible says, that's what the catechism says.
SPEAKER_01:What a great point. And and to ask them first, you know, what's on what's on their mind? What are they thinking? And I'll tell you why while you were just speaking, I was thinking about this high school class that I was presenting to sixteen-year-old kids co-ed class. And you know, talking about theology of the body and the beauty of human sexuality, and they were interested. You know, I could see I you could see, right? I could see they were interested. But what was really profound was toward the end, I just said, Does anybody have anything they want to pray for? Does anything anybody have anything on their mind? Let's just pause. I could just see, right? There is a p a time we needed to just settle down. Bobby, it was beautiful, man. It was i and then I started to listen to those hearts, they close their eyes and start to share my dad, I you know, he's out of work, I hope this and that. One thing after another. And as I just listened to all of those things on those kids' hearts, when we all came out of prayer and started to talk again, that's what we did. It just said, Hey, let's let's address some of these issues that are on your mind, right? You know, what do you want to talk about right now? And man, it was just a beautiful dialogue when that happened.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's great. Um my my wife and I we do the podcast, the Catholic couple, and my wife taught theology for for five years in high school, freshman. So this is that was her day, that's her experience, is yes, she has to present what the church teaches, but there's a lot of questions that people have. And we've also have been very involved uh in our old parish, like 15 years ago, we ran alpha program for five years. And what the alpha program does, it's like alpha, it's like the beginning. It's great for people who are within the church, but mostly for people who are outside the church because it creates a space for people to ask questions. It's not for me to teach. There's a video, we have like a meal together, then there's a video, and then there are questions presented. But when someone is saying things, it isn't me. Okay, well, actually, no, that isn't what happens. The church teaches this. What it is, it's like, oh, that's interesting. What do you think about that? And it's trying to get people to express what they think. Because if you if you're honest, most people have never expressed what they actually think, especially about Jesus. They haven't, they may have been going to church their whole life, but if you ask, well, what does Jesus mean to you? What kind of what kind of relationship do you have? Or why did Jesus die? Or any of those kind of questions that are kind of these bigger questions, it creates a space for people to express what they believe in a space where it's not threatening to people, where they can sit there and have a conversation and not be judged based on you know their their ignorance or maybe their their own opinion. But that that that's not to say that we leave them there. Alpha is just the beginning. And as the the course goes on after 11 weeks, then people start to get guided, and then halfway through there's a Holy Spirit retreat. And by that time, you built, like I said in that Sherry Waddell, you build that curiosity first, and then we start to build that trust. And it's not the program, it's not me, it's not the videos. What happens is that people start to let their guard down, that they trust the people who are there who are not there pointing fingers, they're not judging them. And there's time for that, right? But not when people are first having these questions and all these Gen Zers are coming in. It shouldn't be like, well, the church uses this and this is because he said so. It should be like, okay, well, what have you been taught? What do you think about this? You know, who is Jesus? Why did he die? How can I have faith? Who's the Holy Spirit? What why should I read the Bible? Like these questions, like asking them, and that they'll tell you some amazing things. And that's the thing about people. We don't realize how interesting people are if you let them talk. 100%, brother. And that's it. And people just have never had that space to express themselves in an environment where it's not so judgmental. And I think if we do that, especially as we're seeing young people come into the church and all these new this we're seeing the statistics that people. are learning uh uh and and yearning to be part of a community, something bigger, that the the world is full of this despair and hopelessness. We're seeing a rise in in in people coming to the church. We should have spaces for them not to, you know, to be, well, just get pray, pay, and obey, just sit in the s the the seats, but inviting them into a dialogue to help them grow i in the faith not so much by top down. That that comes through catechism. That comes through RCIA, OCIA, but there's that step in between that, right? We we always say that in the Catholic Church we do a great job of catechizing people, right? But we do a horrible job of evangelizing people. Have we facilitated that encounter with Christ? Have we met Christ? The gospel is Christ.
SPEAKER_01:So the point you're making and I want you to continue on that because that's exactly what I was going to ask you because at the end of the day this is an encounter with the person of Jesus Christ. Sometimes we forget that this is not information. And that young person that we're talking to or anybody has a desire in their heart for this already. We sometimes we forget that that there's a there's a desire for the truth for everything that's true, good and beautiful to an encounter of Christ. It's in there somewhere. And if we can just nurture that and and allow them like you said to talk about it to think about it to go into their heart where where Bobby they may not have gone to your point because of all this noise. These young people are getting blown and and again it's not just young people getting blown around by the spirit of the age. And I'll tell you if we don't get them now I'd like to get your opinion on this I know a lot of sixty and seventy year old people today that are not going to recover. They've just been in in you know sitting with this frog in a proverbial pot for so long they just are not coming out of it. I I pray for them, you know so it's so important what you said to to be able to dialogue get them to think while they're speaking and asking right yeah and and you know I I push the Alpha program a lot because I've seen the fruit from it.
SPEAKER_00:You know it's free. It's not it it's not Catholic per se but there is a lot of Catholics in it. It's meant more of a beginning it's like basic of of Christianity and we do it twice a year in our parish and this this session right now with that we're in the middle of it there's 200 people there. Two hundred people meeting together enjoying the company they make lifelong friends and then from that group what happens is like I said that's alpha. We get a lot of pushback from Catholics like well that's not very Catholic and how come we're not teaching this and teaching that's the beginning you know what does St. Paul say we couldn't give you full milk. We're giving you spirit spiritual milk we've got to give it to you like a baby first. Like let's let you first get rid of all these things that you've let's let's understand what you believe and why you believe it first before I I try to put my ideas into your brain let's unpack and unravel yours a little bit right and then let's let's let's let's let the Holy Spirit you know work through you. Then like I said that the the the retreat I've seen people lives changed by going and putting themselves in a position where calling on the Holy Spirit to overwhelm their lives. Like I said we hear in scripture you know Holy Spirit isn't a one-time event uh baptism and confirmation then the Holy Spirit's gone it's like no keep asking for the Holy Spirit to keep overwhelming you and then what happens is all these people leave from there and now I lead a group of people that's basically on to the next we call connect groups. So then the people who made lifelong friendships in these groups start a group for life in their own homes and then they meet. So we got a group of 30 people and we meet with our children twice a month we rotate each other's houses somebody gives a talk we do a potluck and then our kids are there and then guess what? After the talk we do small group then we do five minutes of silence where we ask and invite God in and let people be uncomfortable in that silence and that's where God wants to speak to us. Then we do praise and worship and we pray with each other. We pray over each other and our kids get to see that. And that's what happens by it started in Alpha. It starts in that that where people have had an encounter with the Lord then they want to get to know Jesus better in his church and what he teaches right but then they want to live it out in community. And that's what we're we're seeing at least in our parish that people are yearning for community they're they're yearning for the word of God but we can't start there. People have to start first with where they're at like especially even Catholics have been going to mass like you said the older people have been there 50 years and they they love Jesus in the Eucharist but they wouldn't know how to express it. They haven't had that encounter it's like well they went to church because they're cultural they went because their mom told them so they went because they know it's the right thing to do but if you ask them why they're doing it and what Jesus means to them and do you have a personal relationship with Jesus they look at you like what you're a Protestant or something like that. It's like no you know the gospel is Jesus it's not a set of principles to live by which those come right but it's first and foremost it's a relationship with Jesus in his church through his sacraments but understanding in a deeper way that relationship is everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah it's when you have a relationship with with a person a human person you know on this community level and a relationship with Christ that your heart has a desire to learn more. Now I'm ready to your point. So I same I've had the same experience with alpha so many people I know push back on it and say no it's too simple whatever. But I've met Catholics that have been in the church for 10 20 30 years that go to Alpha to try to help out and then they learn so much they go I didn't know that. I didn't know that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And what we're doing now we have like a there's another so once you do Alpha then before connect groups if we have another program it's called Rescue Story which is from Father John Ricardo which is explicitly Catholic and it goes through eight weeks of basically salvation history uh there's two videos for each part which is you know created the world was created then it was captured then we talk about the devil and sin and then it's about uh redemption rescue that Jesus came and this is why he came and then it's response now what are you called to do so then that's the next step in our process is this rescue story. It's beautiful it's free but it helps create this space okay there's like the when we get into the the capture part in the devil and sin it's some deep conversations and people are going places that they didn't even know were still there things that they're holding on to to understand like this is the basic charisma of of the faith that you know God created the world and right and then you know through our Adam and Eve that there was fallen and sin and death and therefore we had to be rescued. And because rescued people should rescue other people and show them Jesus where he's at like for me as an example as a convert I'm a rescue person that he picked me up out of the depth of misery and sin and he saved me. Therefore my response is I want to help other people who were at where I'm at because of what he did for me. So if somebody thinks that well that's not Catholic uh well you know the Pope's in there Father Renero cantolamessa I first learned about uh who's incredible he's uh he's I've read like five of his books he's still alive yeah he is yeah he was a papal preacher to the to to like three different popes his his writing on the Holy Spirit second to none and he's the happiest priest I've ever seen and that's that's those are the people I'm attracted to people who are full of joy he's unbelievable. He's unbelievable and uh St. Maximin Colby there's a whole thing I didn't even know who St. Maxim Colby was but in Alpha in the third video where they talk about why did Jesus die Saint Maxim Colby is literally the the modern saint that epitomizes what Christ did for us is that he was innocent. He took the place for for others and and he took our spot and died instead no greater love than to lay down our life for those uh you know for our friends and and and so that that's an alpha yeah it's not explicitly Catholic for a reason because we're trying to reach people who aren't Catholic and it's a it's the alpha it's the beginning has helped to re reach people so if that may not be for you it's a free resource that's why it works.
SPEAKER_01:I call it evangelization for dummies it's as easy to I defend what you're saying 100%. I've seen you know people light up and if they want more just like you said there's plenty to go.
SPEAKER_00:Well our our our parish is standing room only every mass and we have so many small groups going those connect groups right now we have 12 of those going we have our rescue project got 200 people alpha every time gets 200 people we do it twice a year so the fruit is there so people can say one way or the other well now these people are actual disciples our church's tagline is disciples who make disciples like our church is doing that so if it I judge a tree by its fruit you know if it wasn't so Catholic well now people are becoming more Catholic it's just that it's starting where meeting people where they're at the goal of the program is to reach people outside the church. So we don't start with the catechism you start with the charisma who is Jesus why does it matter why why have faith why should I read the Bible why you know why does bad things happen why do bad things happen to good people? Like why is there suffering? Why is there evil? What's the deal with the devil? Like those questions that people are talking about not like what what does the church say about homosexuality? Like we get there we'll eventually get there but let's talk about things that are more existential or more basic and fundamental because a lot of people haven't presented the gospel we haven't presented the gospel in a way that's meaningful or memorable or uh a way to remember it or to apply it or even to see why why should I give my life to this because you're you're you know you're a hundred percent right because if we start to take all of these um tangents you know they're just a bunch of str uh threads that nobody puts together into a systematic way I can think and live.
SPEAKER_01:And so all we're doing is arguing about opinions and you're right. You know part of what we do uh with this apostolate for young men is we lay a foundation first. Because otherwise you're just arguing about uh different things. Bobby uh well let's give a plug for your your parish real quick I know ever everybody listening to this podcast this will go into fifteen sixteen different countries but uh but your parish is special. What what's the name of your parish?
SPEAKER_00:We're St. John the Evangelist and St. John Indiana and I actually do a podcast through them. We have a studio we do purposely Catholic out of the parish but our parish is open to other parishes who want to try to become a church that's on fire and on purpose who wants to make disciples who make disciples. We're called to be missionary disciples and that's everything that our church does is about that. I'm not on the leadership team but I might as well be I'm like I do everything you know we have a team you know and and they're they're focused on making an amazing parish to make the experience the best it could possibly be but also being reverent because the superpower that our parish has is for the last 25 years we've had perpetual adoration. We've had people around the clock praying for the mission of the church, praying for all the people we have people praying 24-7 for 25 years and that's the powerhouse of the church. We need those people who maybe are not teachers but those people who are on their knees praying. We need intercessory prayer warriors we need people who are service who just want to serve the poor we need people in all those things and just because you're not a front end have a podcast and you're not a teacher doesn't mean you're any less than that everybody has their different charisms of what God is calling them to do but our parish does that very well. You can go to SJE plus we have they have YouTube all of Father Sammy's homilies are on there he's got uh a show we're trying to meet people in in in the digital world as as but you can come and see for yourself like what is going on. When you walk into the door I promise you that somebody will have you'll you'll probably be greeted by three different people on your way before you even hit the front door of welcoming you and be happy that you're there. And then afterwards you'll see the the narthex is full of people who are full of joy who are sharing life together. I mean this this last Saturday our community is so great this last Saturday we we had 30 people our friends that we were out uh at a farm uh in Illinois there was a huge silo we all met out there uh our old associate priest showed up he did mass for us out in the middle of this field we were climbing uh a silo kids were riding bikes we're you know had a bonfire we had a couple drinks being Catholic doesn't mean we have to be weird we get together still do it we we doing all these other things as friends but except for we bring Jesus we start with Jesus and then from there we have authentic relationships that aren't just talking about well what the bears are going to do tonight which I love the bears but that isn't the the most important thing in my life it's like when Jesus becomes front and center he just does those things but it was the most beautiful day I've had in a long time. The kids were so having so much fun there was so much energy and that's what's possible. And that's why I'm passionate about doing what I'm doing because I was trying to do all these things in my old parish with a lot of pushback because a lot of people like well that's not Catholic. Well it's not well the churches used to be filled and the culture isn't on our side so guess what? We have to go out there and we have to do it and we have to rethink the way that we do things not our teaching but how we uh do hospitality how we love people how we meet people where there are and how we can draw them into a personal relationship Jesus because we have the closest relationship it's Jesus in the Eucharist and that is our goal and if if that's not your goal then maybe you should pray some more about it because that's exactly what our mission is go therefore and make disciples of all nations and that's not just for the priest that's for us and you don't have to have a podcast to do that. You can do that by a simple invitation and loving and praying for that person.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah thank you for that you know John Paul II was often criticized for doing exactly what what you're talking about because he said I will go anywhere I will speak to anybody said well they're not Catholic and he said okay how are we supposed to go out and do this anybody Jesus said that's not against us is for us. And in a time like this with Satan being so prevalent out there the spiritual warfare people beating each other up man we need to to talk about this with anybody that'll listen so look at on our way out here today I really want people to connect with you Bobby so tell us uh where they can connect with your podcast where they can get fed you know where they can learn about you and the work that you're doing.
SPEAKER_00:No I appreciate that. Yeah so I have three articles up on Catholic Exchange if you want to get this article on influencers versus saints but we also did a podcast on it um purposelycatholic.com we actually have both the Catholic couple and purposely Catholic on the same website we have some newsletters there and some merch and stuff like that. I'm very active on Instagram at the Catholic couple one and purposely Catholic and on TikTok and Facebook all the all the good stuff but I do spend a lot of time on social media because I I do try to inspire people as far as like you know today you know it's Christopher Columbus Day so uh I'm about to do a video about you know how much he's been misaligned about the truth about you know his you know the the Santa Maria was you know and you know he was a you know it's a third order Franciscan I believe and you know he was really trying to to raise up money to to take back Jerusalem for for the Christians and and you know he wasn't torturing the natives and there wasn't any genocide. So I try to educate people on that but I also try to get people inspired of what's going on this month of October. We have so many great saints so sharing those kinds of inspirational quotes and church teachings and and just uh any kind of insights that I can offer.
SPEAKER_01:So I could find that podcast is that is that the website purposely catholic.com yeah it you can find both podcasts there everything there. Yeah we're on you I want to listen to this one on on on Christopher uh on Columbus. Yeah it's I I'll tell you why because we're meeting so many young people that we have been taught in school to hate our country. Yeah just just lies about so many things and we need them to love the country and not just love the country just to love it but to change it to bring these values back into our nation so that they have a nation uh to to raise families and grow up in so many of them are scared Bobby to get married to raise uh families they see what's happening to the nation and so while we're getting our own hearts back we need to to help the country is it's it's really millions of people like yourself that are going out and speaking the truth. And talking about uh you know our our founding fathers etc very important to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah that that was my background I was actually a history teacher for I did it for one year before I became Catholic I just wasn't mature enough to uh to do it. My wife was also a history teacher so that's also our passion but it's it it definitely wasn't taught in public school to me as far as the connection between faith and history. So there's so much I mean you know Columbus like I said Bartolome de la Casas he documented it most of it he was the most friendly to the natives and who did more than any other one person to help the natives and so he documented everything that he was he he was doing and saying and like I said they prayed every night they sang the Salve Regina they were about you know spreading the gospel regardless of what people say but we also have to put things in context. Obviously what was going on in the Old Testament isn't the same things that are going on today. There is a plus one theory of like you know God didn't just start us off like right now where we're at it's like we had God had to also help us. Yeah there were some bad things and no one's perfect and no one would say that that things could have been a little bit different obviously but he he wasn't committing genocide couldn't be further from the truth. The same with our founding and you know the uh you know the St. Augustine was the really the first colony and and and first uh place in the United States was actually a a Catholic mass before the pilgrims came in the 1600s and the uh late 1500s there were Catholics in Florida in St. Augustine Florida where we still have a a a you know a worship site there today so there's all kinds of things in history that are interesting to me that I try to share on the podcast and uh whether that's the Catholic couple or purposely Catholic and we have a lot of great guests that come on and books and things like that.
SPEAKER_01:So beautiful purposely Catholic dot com. We'll make sure we get that in the show notes too. Hey thank you Bobby really appreciate your time thanks everybody thanks for joining us today thanks again soon thanks for having me on Jack appreciate it.