Become Who You Are
What’s the meaning and purpose of my life? What is my true identity? Why were we created male and female? How do I find happiness, joy and peace? How do I find love that lasts, forever? These are the timeless questions of the human heart. Join Jack Rigert and his guests for lively insights, reading the signs of our times through the lens of Catholic Teaching and the insights of Saint John Paul ll to guide us.
Saint Catherine of Siena said "Become who you are and you would set the world on fire".
Become Who You Are
#660 Catholic Faith Unbroken, The Importance of the Early Church Fathers: With Bishop Athanasius Schneider
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Bishop Athanasius Schneider delivers a powerful message of hope and clarity for Catholics navigating the complexities of modern faith. Drawing from his deep knowledge of Church history and tradition, he illuminates the unbroken chain of teaching that connects today's believers directly to the apostles through the early Church Fathers.
"There is only one truth," Bishop Schneider declares with conviction, explaining that what makes Catholic faith distinct is its remarkable continuity across the centuries. He illustrates this through the example of St. Irenaeus, a second-century bishop who could trace his spiritual lineage directly to the Apostle John. This living connection between the apostolic age and our own time offers profound reassurance that authentic Catholic teaching remains unchanged despite cultural shifts and contemporary confusion.
For those troubled by apparent contradictions or ambiguities they encounter in today's Church, Bishop Schneider offers practical wisdom: "When we are confused, please read the old catechisms. There is the crystal clear Catholic faith." Also, the Early Church Fathers, including St. Ignatius of Antioch's seven letters, St. Augustine's Confessions, and works by St. Justin Martyr and St. Basil on the Holy Spirit.
The conversation explores Bishop Schneider's book "Matins with the Fathers," which provides commentary from Church Fathers on daily Scripture readings.
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Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center. I'm Jack Riggert, your host. We are very honored today to be with Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Bishop Schneider O-R-C is a Catholic prelate serving as the auxiliary bishop of Astana, kazakhstan. He's a member of the Canons Regulier of the Holy Cross of Coimbra. Your Excellency, thank you so much for being on the show. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:You know I have to tell our audience and especially we have a lot of young men joining us. I have to just mention to them that you are one of those voices that kept me sane and many of my friends from thinking that we were crazy over the last 10, 15 years. So you were that voice of reason, always bringing us back to the truth, to the faith, to our true faith, and so I owe you more than you can imagine. So thank you so much for being that voice and having the courage and the way you always did. That was just, it was marvelous, it was inspiring. I was mentioning to you right before we came on the big sword behind me, bishop Schneider, is the Claymore sword, made famous by William Wallace in the movie Braveheart many years ago, and we always tell the young guys to go watch that show.
Speaker 1:They have so many questions about our country, the culture, the dysfunction in their families, our country, the culture, the dysfunction in their families. Unfortunately, they've been exposed to sexuality too early in their lives and they're dealing with all those issues and they're seeking the truth. Many of them came out and voted for Donald Trump and I'm not being partisan here but now they're saying now what, bishop Schneider, you know where do we seek the truth? Where do we go from here? So we're walking with them, schneider, you know where do we seek the truth? Where do we go from here? So we're walking with them, discipling them, forming communities.
Speaker 1:But these are still confusing times and we're excited to have you on the show. You know, when these young guys, they ask us why should we become Catholic? Why should we go to the Catholic Church and not some other church? And I think our topic here is going to help them with that. Any advice for these young guys coming in and again, this will go out, bishop Schneider, to our whole audience. But I want to focus today just because everybody gets excited when we see these young guys joining us the most important to know, dear young people, there is only one truth there is no matter.
Speaker 2:And in faith, and this is the most important of our life, the reality of faith, because we are created for eternity, for eternal happiness with God, and this way is only possible through the faith, but through one true faith. There are no many faiths, because God himself deigned to show us the way he had established. And this is the way of the faith, supernatural faith in God's revelation, which is in the purity, the fullness, only in the Catholic Church, because this is the church of the apostles, of the fathers of the church, in uninterrupted continuity all the times, and this is the church which God himself founded. And this is the church which God himself founded. He will be not God if he would not have been chosen. One church and gave his authority, in spite of weakness and errors of truth, shines in the church, in their official teaching, in the catechisms, in the life of the saints, in the teaching of the fathers of the church, especially and this is the greatest treasure which we have here on earth the holy catholic, divine faith.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for that. And you know, one of the things, your Excellency, that they do as part of this claim or this apostolate, is to read Scripture every day. And we ask them to focus on the Mass readings, whether they're going to Mass that morning or not, but just every night or every morning to read that. Because we bring, you know, the Old Testament or a letter from St Paul in with the Psalms and then in with the readings, and then, you know, then we work with them to pray Lectio Divina. And one of the things we want to expose them to are the early church fathers, because the importance of everything you just said, your Excellency, and it helps them link I think right Link to what Jesus taught us, all the way from the Old Testament to what Jesus taught us. But those early church fathers are so important because they link today, what's happening today, if they're searching for the truth, back to the roots, right, all the way back.
Speaker 1:Well, you wrote a book. It's called Matins with the Fathers. I'm just going to hold it up. And the reason I'm excited about this today is that it talks about these early church fathers. So, if you don't mind, your Excellency, why did you choose the title Matins with the Fathers, and these are the early church fathers.
Speaker 2:Well, first I would explain what are the fathers? Yes, thank you. The fathers of the church are a category of holy men recognized by the church, canonized from the antiquity, from the first centuries of the church More or less until the 6th, 7th century, From the beginning. So started with the direct disciples of the apostles, which are called apostolic fathers, who were the disciples directly of the apostles, and so they transmitted the same faith, the same spirit to their disciples without rupture and so on, and this is a treasure. We see how clear how deep the church fathers explained the word of God. Especially, they were the most apt and holy commentaries on the Bible because they were living day and night, meditating on the word of God by prayers, by the Holy Life, and they were reading the Bible with the spirit of the apostles, with the spirit of the living tradition, not their own fancies or their own subjective meanings or the philosophy they really. They were reading, meditating the Holy Word of God with the spirit of the church. This is the only sure way. And so they left us a huge treasure of their writings, and these we have.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, people have not so much access or do not read, but you can read the Holy Fathers. They are in the Internet, almost in English available St Augustine, St John Chrysostom, St Athanasius, the apostolic fathers, and so on. And so this is first the church father. They are privileged testimonies of the holy apostolic tradition. This is first so.
Speaker 1:I want to just make this for the young guys coming on. That was so well done. Thank you so much, your Excellency. But I just want to make this point again that especially the very early church fathers, you know, actually were disciples of the apostles or disciples of someone who was a disciple of the apostles, and then it went on from there. But the point was and you made this point I just want to reiterate to these young guys that they didn't just go out on their own and start teaching whatever they felt like teaching. They stayed solid. This was very much the Holy Spirit movement. It's almost a miracle in itself that this many people could go out all over the world and speak the same truth.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. For example, St Irenaeus, a church father from the second century. So he was a kind of grandson of the Apostle Paul, a spiritual, not a physical, of course, st John the Apostle. St John the Apostle had a disciple and ordained him bishop. It was St Polycarp, martyr and bishop of Smyrna. He died around 160, more or less. And Polycarp had a disciple, irenaeus. So, and Irenaeus became Bishop of Lyon, lyon or French Gallia it was called at that time the second century.
Speaker 2:And Irenaeus. He wrote that I transmit, transmit you only what Polycarp taught me, and Polycarp all what he taught me. He took it from the Apostle St John himself. So you see how solid is this teaching of St Irenaeus and St Irenaeus in his huge work which is entitled Against Heresies. There he states that the church is spread all over the world and he lists up the several countries. In the second century he already mentioned Britain, england. In the second century there are Christians, catholics, and in Africa and so on, and in Germany even, he mentioned and then he said in spite of, the church is spread in so many countries, the church speaks with one mouth, with one voice. The same truth he says in Germany, in Africa, in England, in Spain, in the East, the church does not teach other things, always the same.
Speaker 2:And later, some centuries later, another father of the Church, st Vincent of Lerines, also in Gallia, he coined this expression what is Catholic? Catholic is what was always believed in all time, what was believed by all and what was believed everywhere. So these three categories must be fulfilled together, simultaneously, everywhere, always by all. This is Catholic, not only in one place or in one person, but together. And so this is the principle of the Church, fathers, the fidelity to the Spirit of jesus christ. The apostles transmitted us integrally the spirit, and so this is the first point. Then the second, which which I explain now, it's the matins.
Speaker 2:So matins is a part of divine office. What is divine office? Divine office is the official prayer of the church during day and night, especially with Psalms. It is the liturgy, as it's called, of the hours to sanctify the time by praising God with Psalms, especially with hymns and readings, god with psalms, especially with hymns and readings. So, and this is already partly taken from the Old Testament, from the you say the the apostles. They see there is written they were praying the third hour, the sixth, the ninth hour in the midnight. All it's already by the apostles, this terminology, and so the apostles, this terminology, and so the church kept these prayer times and developed, especially in the monasteries, the monks, in representing the entire humanity, praying in their name, praising God, day and night, of course in different times, and so, and one of the main liturgical hours of the divine office are the matins.
Speaker 2:It is from Latin matutinum or hore matutine. It means the morning hours, matutinum means in Latin the morning or the sun rising. So this was a time, usually in the night or closer to the sunrise, the most longer time with the most psalms, where the monks dedicated these quiet hours of the night to praise God and there were a lot of readings from the Holy Scripture and then on Sundays and feast days, additionally, commentaries of the Holy Fathers to this specific biblical passage. And so, but in the old breviary there were no commentaries. There are no commentaries for the daily readings for the Matins, only for Sundays and feast days.
Speaker 2:Therefore I collected commentaries specific to these biblical passages of the Holy Fathers for the daily meetings, where they are not in the old breviary, in the new one, for Paul VI, there are commentaries thanks be to God, daily.
Speaker 2:But I put this for those priests who still use the older, longer form of the breviary, with these longer readings, and for private use, that so they can, during the day, make a kind of Lectio Divina, a short reading with these commentaries of the Holy Fathers. By the same time, when you are reading the commentaries, you will better understand this specific short reading of the Bible. And then also in these commentaries, the Father transmits by commenting these Bible verses, they transmit us in the same time a rich theological explanation. So we are also getting profit in knowing better our Catholic faith by these commentaries, not only the Holy Scripture, not only Holy Scripture but also other truths of our Catholic faith. And so I consider this collection of short I did not so long but short therefore to help the priest a short time to read this commentary and next day the shorter one, and to have this treasure to love more the Holy Scripture, to understand it deeper and to see the richness of the Holy Fathers, also regarding doctrine of faith and morals.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you, thank you. So this was written, of course, for the religious, but we can see the connection, your Excellency, for our audience, just because of the early church fathers. Really, I mean, you know what you're saying there and I just want to make this clear for our new guys coming in is that, these commentaries that you're talking about, it's unbelievable richness that we are able to read early church fathers, that again, we're speaking the same language, the same words, the same faith all over the world, and they've written on Scripture what they were thinking, what they were looking at and, you know, it's like we could read it this morning. Like you know these early church fathers, like they were speaking to me this morning, like he, like you know these early church fathers, like they were speaking to me this morning, it's like you would think, your Excellency, this was you know it was too long ago. It's got nothing to do with us, but it does. It comes alive, doesn't it? Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:So this also, this, my book, has the aim to make better known the Fathers and to appreciate that our Catholic faith has the characteristic of continuity, that in our Catholic faith there are no ruptures, there is an organic growth.
Speaker 1:Continuity, yes and so when—I'm sorry, go ahead, Bishop.
Speaker 2:This continuity in faith is without ruptures, and the demonstration and the witnesses are these church fathers.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is so important when young people and all of us, not just young people, all of us are looking to say you know, why should we stay in the Catholic Church? Or, if I'm new, you know why go into the Catholic Church instead of some other church? And this is why this is the beauty of this it's linked throughout history. And, like you said, I'm just going to reiterate it again because they'll say well, you know, isn't Catholic teaching? Doesn't it change over time? Because there's a confusion. You know, we saw this confusion the last, well, you know the last decade or more. Yet yet we know that there is a truth.
Speaker 1:So what would you say to our audience, your Excellency, when they've heard, you know, I thought you know the Catholic Church changes, because I heard different things coming from different places. How do we help them get through the confusion? Do we just tell them to turn off? You know, help them get through the confusion. Do we just tell them to turn off? Words coming from the Vatican at one time. But what can we offer them to say? Here's how we cut through the confusion. Find our faith, find our hearts, find Jesus Christ in the fullness of the faith. How do I do that, with all this noise coming even within the church I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Yes, jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever and the same. The Catholic faith is the same yesterday, today and forever. The Catholic faith, by nature, by definition, cannot be changed by no one, by no pope, by no council, by no synod. No, the Catholic faith. Of course, there were also always crisis, time of crisis in the history of the church, where clerics and bishops mostly not lay people, but bishops and clerics tried to change the faith. Mostly not lay people, but bishops and clerics tried to change the faith. We call these wrong teachings or heresies and so.
Speaker 2:But the church always overcome this, overcame it because the church is divine also and has the divine assistance of Christ, that the gates of hell will never prevail against the church. And even though there can be a relatively short time of some confusion or obfuscation within the church, even high-ranking clergy spreading confusion, ambiguities, nevertheless this will collapse and the clarity of the Catholic faith will again shine because the Church is divine. God sometimes permits these trials for us. As you mentioned, the last decades we had to suffer. They came even from the Vatican, words and gestures which were very confusing, people which were undermining divine truth on morality and so on. But this is a short time. We must look broader. We must look to the church fathers, we must look and believe in the indestructibility of the Catholic faith and the Catholic church and this so we have to continue.
Speaker 2:When we are confused, please read the old catechisms. There is the crystal clear Catholic faith. The Baltimore Catechism, for example, is crystal clear. No change. Read this and you are sure, and don't hear on confusion words of this bishop or of this cardinal. No, you say I know my Catholic faith and I will not allow that a priest, a bishop or a cardinal will confuse my Catholic faith, because this faith is not mine, it is from the entire church. Since the beginning of the church, fathers remained unchanging and will remain unchanging in spite of our current darkness and confusion. So be courageous and be happy that you are Catholic, that you can know the Catholic faith, and this is my desire, my wish. Please read the Church Fathers, read the texts of them, read the catechisms, the old ones, and this is enough for you, you are sure. Thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Let me go off tangent just a little bit. For us guys that have been around for a while, if we hear in our parish something that is wrong, the teaching is wrong. What's our responsibility as lay people, would you say. And you know, a lot of times, you know we hold back because we don't know if it's our place or not. But look, we have to be careful on all of these issues, right? But if we hear something that we know is heresy or wrong error, as you called it, in our local parish, we can't. I feel your Excellency, I don't just need to go to another parish, I need to do something within that parish so that people don't hear the wrong teaching. What's our responsibility as lay people, would you say?
Speaker 2:hear the wrong teaching. What's our responsibility?
Speaker 1:as lay people, would you say.
Speaker 2:Well, it is delicate because when the parish priest himself spreads errors, you can do basically nothing because we have a hierarchy. You cannot say now I am the boss of the parish and I will teach you this. It's impossible. The parish priest will probably then expel you when you start to, even in a good way, and you are right. But there are some parish priests who are already a kind of heretics and spread errors or ambiguities. In this case you can advise him kindly, gently, and show the catechism of the Catholic Church, these points, but when he will not accept it and continue his idea, you can do nothing.
Speaker 1:We need to find another parish, then, right.
Speaker 2:In this case, when you have children and young people, that they will not be more confused. It is your responsibility and task as a father and mother of the family to go to another place where the sermons and the teaching is sound. You are not bound. You are not married with this parish. This is not a marriage and you are not obliged to always go to this church. There is no church law which obliges you In this case. We have the freedom of the children of God to Let me explain this. So let us say we are the sheep, and when one pastor leads the sheep to some grasses which are evidently not good for the sheep and the sheep say they will feel these grasses not good, and then they see there is another part of the field where we know this is better for our nourishment, so they will go there. Why not? Because the church is one. This parish is not the Catholic church identified. This is a part, and so go to the better part, to those who are more healthier. It's very logic and evident.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I just want to back up a little bit to your point where you know error has come in, you know, to the church. Of course it has, because you know it's made up of men and women who are going to be fallen. But the beauty of this, the incredible miracle, is that this truth has come down to us. Everything that we're talking about here and I just want to make this point for our younger audience when they think well, I don't know, there's so much confusion the reality is it's come down very clearly to your point and I think that's the real miracle as you look into this Exactly.
Speaker 2:As we see, the church father transmitted us the purity of this source of water, not troubled, and this is the merit of them. They were holy fathers. Of course they are not completely infallible. It's only the magisterium when it proclaims rarely a kind of dogma ex cathedra or definitively in councils or in special acts of the popes it's not so often, and there they have the divine assistance. Popes, it's not so often, and there they have the divine assistance. But in general the fathers nevertheless had this Catholic instinct, this gift of the Holy Spirit to transmit us the pure nourishment of the Catholic faith.
Speaker 1:And we know it, don't we? When we read it. And I want to get to this point because when we read scriptures, the importance of reading biblical readings every day, for just a little while, every day for our lives, it will speak to our hearts and we will know. We will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Huh, but we will know the truth. It touches our hearts. Can you speak about the importance of reading some Scripture every day and the importance and the change it can make in our lives? Bishop Schneider.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is the Word of God which nourishes us, because it's inspired Word of God, word of God, and therefore we should read every day at least a small part or passage of the word of God and then also to read. Some passages are not directly and always understandable, so we have to. Therefore the church fathers can give us a help how to better to understand or to deeper understand the word of God. So good commentaries is also very helpful, but Catholic commentaries, sure commentaries, and so to take some Bibles maybe who have good commentaries on the bottom of the page, catholic I mean commentaries, and then I Do you like the Ignatius Bible Bishop.
Speaker 2:Schneider yes, catholic, catholic, sure Bibles who have solid commentaries I would recommend to read together with a small commentary Good.
Speaker 1:And I have a set of books and they're inspiring. But even if we always suggest, you know you get something like the Magnificat we have here and it always has a beautiful commentary. So you read the reading. You know you get something like the Magnificat we have here and it always has a beautiful commentary. So you read the reading. You have a commentary from a saint or an early church father. I mean, they're just beautiful and inspiring, aren't they?
Speaker 1:When we're reading the fathers of the church, you know, of course, you have a book here, but what else would you say to young people if they're saying, okay, I want to read some of the early church fathers, anybody that you would start with? I mean, this is a big category, right? We have a lot of. Like you said, it was amazing how much has been passed down. Their letters and their writings have been passed down to us. It's really amazing. Where would you start if you were a young guy coming in the church and say, yes, I listened to Bishop Athanasius Schneider, I'm going to read the early church fathers. Where would you start?
Speaker 2:I will propose to the apostolic father, St Ignatius of Antioch, Antiochia, his seven letters. This is a jewel, a spiritual jewel, where he explains he wasn't a disciple of the apostles himself, Ignatius of Antioch, and he left us seven short letters, which are deeply spiritual, speaking about the Eucharist, speaking about the Church, speaking about our love to Jesus Christ and the martyrdom. So this, for example, could be a help.
Speaker 1:Then, also— and I just add, you said this already. I just want to make it clear to our audience. He was on his way to martyrdom when he was writing those letters, so these were important to him.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Or St Justin the philosopher remarked from the second century his, or St Justin the philosopher remarked from the second century his apology. I mean he wrote an apology, a defense of the Christian faith, and also very valuable.
Speaker 1:in a simple way, explained the truth of the Catholic faith to the pagans at that time. Is this St?
Speaker 2:Justin the Martyr. We call it, yes, st Justin the Martyr. We call it, yes, st Justin the Martyr, yes, okay. And then, of course, the other great fathers of the church St Augustine, for example. One of the best commentaries on the Gospel of Luke is St Ambrose. St Ambrose wrote a beautiful commentary on the entire Gospel of St Luke, so you can read these commentaries when you. Or the commentaries of St John One of the most beautiful commentaries of the Gospel of St John is St Augustine, his commentaries of the Apostle St John, for example. Commentaries of the Apostle St John, for example. And also I would recommend to know St Augustine, his autobiography, the Confessions which he wrote, where he showed his way of errors to truth. It's also recommendable. And then also other fathers. For example, sent Basil on the Holy Spirit, on the Holy Spirit. It's a beautiful short book on the Holy Spirit and the church. Then, on penance, for example, you can read early Father Tertullian from the second third century. So there are a lot of. So I could continue to, but this is the most known works.
Speaker 2:I would recommend it to read also, and also St Augustine, the handbook of faith, hope and love, these three virtues, virtues. I would also recommend to read the synthesis what does it mean to believe, to hope and to love?
Speaker 1:Yes, well, before I let you go, and you thought you were going to get off easy, and thank you so much for that. This is very helpful, very helpful, and we'll make sure we get the book, of course, in the notes, in the show notes, and where to get that book and if they want to learn more about you, what's the best way for them to do that.
Speaker 2:Your Excellency, where are a lot of my articles and videos and there I have a monthly show or catechesis, and questions and answers every 13th of the month in the evening in the East Time, usa, 9 pm every 13th of the month. There I give some talks or answer some questions so people can join this also.
Speaker 1:Okay, last question for you before you go how are you feeling about I'm going?
Speaker 2:to have to ask you this how?
Speaker 1:are you feeling about the church today? You know we have a new pope. He's an American pope. I'm from the south side of Chicago and I'm almost the same age as the pope, so we were there at the same time, even though we don't remember each other, I'm sure. But we have an American pope. But how are you feeling? I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot Can we be hopeful or we still got to be? I'll leave it to you.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we have to wait because it's still early, but at least he shows a sign of more balanced attitude and we have to accompany him with prayers that he may recognize the necessities of the church, those things which need to be clarified for the sake of the truth and to renew the church with good apostolic men, bishops and cardinals, and really to be rooted in the clarity of the truth and to transmit to make all people disciples of Jesus Christ that he may have good collaborators and transmit to make all people disciples of Jesus Christ that he may have good collaborators. So we have to pray for him that he may recognize the necessities and have the courage to do it.
Speaker 1:Thank you, we'll keep you in our prayers too, bishop Athanasius Schneider. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks everyone for joining us. We'll talk to you again soon. Goodbye, can you give us a quick blessing on the way out, bishop Schneider? Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks everyone for joining us. We'll talk to you again soon. Goodbye, can you give us a quick blessing on the way out, bishop Schneider?
Speaker 2:Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus, pater et filius et spiritus sanctus. Amen. Praise be Jesus Christ. Thank you so much Thank you.