Become Who You Are
What’s the meaning and purpose of my life? What is my true identity? Why were we created male and female? How do I find happiness, joy and peace? How do I find love that lasts, forever? These are the timeless questions of the human heart. Join Jack Rigert and his guests for lively insights, reading the signs of our times through the lens of Catholic Teaching and the insights of Saint John Paul ll to guide us.
Saint Catherine of Siena said "Become who you are and you would set the world on fire".
Become Who You Are
#644 Claymore (3): Famous Exorcist Fr. Gabriele Amorth Left us a Practical Spiritual Warfare Handbook w Michael Lichens
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We explore Father Gabriele Amorth's book "God Most Powerful," which serves as a practical handbook for spiritual warfare. Rather than becoming obsessed with evil, Father Amorth encourages us to focus on strengthening our relationship with God through prayer, sacraments, and embracing truth. The best defense against darkness isn't fear but cultivating goodness and wonder in our daily lives.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we discuss how young people today are desperately seeking meaning in a culture that often reduces humans to mere biological accidents. As one psychiatrist observed, "Young men will crawl over broken glass to find meaning." This search becomes particularly challenging when our society distorts language and rejects fundamental realities about human nature. St. Edith Stein's profound wisdom offers guidance: "Speak the truth in love and love people in the truth. One without the other is a destructive lie."
Michael also reveals how developing relationships with saints provides spiritual allies in times of darkness. His simple prayer during the worst moments—"You're God, I'm not, please help"—offers immediate relief by acknowledging the divine relationship that sustains us.
Our guest Michael Lichens, author and editor with a passion for overlooked aspects of Christian history, walks us through this harrowing yet ultimately redemptive story.
Purchase Link: God Most Powerful, By Fr. Gabriele Amorth, An Exorcists Testament to God's Victory over Satan
Ready to discover how wonder might transform your own battles? Listen now, and consider downloading the Claymore Militus Christi Battle Plan and join us in reclaiming what it means to be a man. Share this episode with someone and discuss the questions together:
Discuss Ephesians 6:10-20. In it Saint Paul says, "For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the world rulers of this present darkness...
Discuss how this is seen in our culture today: Sister Lucia of Fatima wrote, "The last great battle between Our Lord and Satan will be fought over marriage and the family".
While listening to the podcast Consider and discuss: "Young people are searching for the truth and this is what Father Amorth brings out over and over and over again, the importance of staying in the truth and reality. Truth and reality. Where do you find the truth? What is real? How should I live my life right? What is my identity?"
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Basically, what happened is he realized that the way to conquer his depression was with wonder and that little insight to look at everything, to look at a blade of grass or a piece of chalk and go there is so much good in this world. He had a phrase that the world doesn't lack from a want of wonders, but a lack of wonder my understanding.
Speaker 2:You know, from talking to these young people, it's not always a pill that helps and it's not always therapy that helps. You need God, you know so a good, I think, a good therapist and I'm not a doctor, but I've just seen it in action A good therapist will lead you. In fact, carl Jung spoke about this. There are more. It's a stay with reality, stay with what's true. When I see these gender ideologies and you tell young children that a boy can become a girl, which is not reality, which is not truth, which is scientifically impossible. But we start grooming them early and we do that with these use of pronouns and we have to be very careful with this. Somebody asked me Jack, why are you against using pronouns? What's the big deal? And I said it's a big deal because when you walk away from reality, because when we speak the words in truth, now, right, when I speak about reality, truth, no, I'm not going to use a pronoun. No, a baby is not just a clump of cells. No, a man can't become a woman. I have to speak those truths and I have to do it in love, right, st Edith Stein, who became St Teresa of Benedicta of the Cross right before she went to the gas chamber she said Speak the truth in love and love people in the truth. One without the other is a destructive lie.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center. I'm Jack Riggert, your host. Special shout-out again to the young people that are joining us, especially the young people of Claymore. Miletus Christie. That's the sword in the back.
Speaker 2:I also have a statue here to protect Mr Litchens today and he's here with me to discuss this battle of good and evil. You know, as all of you know, my heart goes out to these young people that have been growing up in this toxic culture and they're looking for something more Well, as soon as they do, michael and I'll bring you on in a second, but as soon as they do, they're going to confront this battle between good and evil. John Paul would say you know, it's an exterior evil you see in the world, but it starts in that interior evil, that battle between good and evil done and it's fought on the battlefield of each human heart. So I'm excited to have Michael Litchens back with me. Michael is an author, he's done a lot of things, he's got a great background. He just did a show with me last week and I'm glad to have him back to discuss good and evil, michael welcome.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Jack. It's always a joy to join you.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give them a little bit of your background. You come from a favorite place of mine which is around Denver, colorado, in the Rocky Mountains. I used to live there. I've got family there now. Michael is an author, editor, researcher with a passion for the overlooked aspects of Christian history. He's a former editor of Catholic Exchange as well as the St Austin Review. He's a frequent guest on radio and television shows on which he shares strange and delightful things about faith and Review. He's a frequent guest on radio and television shows on which he shares strange and delightful things about faith and history. With an MA from the University of Chicago Divinity School and a BA in philosophy, michael especially loves reading anything from St Augustine GK Chesterton I'd probably say Lewis in there. You've got to be reading Lewis too, michael, if you've done all that right.
Speaker 1:From the time I was a child.
Speaker 2:And probably a little Aquinas that you've thrown in there too. Yes, but when he's not busy writing about bone churches, which we talked about in the last show, go listen to the last show and local history can be found editing books for authors or leading tours of old buildings in the American West I'm going to take him up on that. Old Buildings in the American West, I'm going to take him up on that. Or in Rome, following his writing and other adventures at M-L-I-C-H-E-N-S. So that's Michael and his last name's Litchenscom, and I'll have that in the show notes, where he describes himself as a faith-filled beer critic. I love that. With a writing problem, Michael, so good to have you back.
Speaker 1:It's great to be here, Jack. Thanks again.
Speaker 2:You know we're going to be discussing good and evil, but we're going to do it through a book that you and I both read. The name of it is God Most Powerful, and this is very interesting because it's an exorcist, a famous exorcist, father Gabriel Amorth. Father Gabriel Amorth, he writes it and he says this in the front of the book an exorcist's testament to God's victory over the devil. What did you think about that book, michael?
Speaker 1:I was surprised about the book. I've read Father Amorth a lot. I wrote a small chapter about him in my book and I've long admired him. So when the Sophia Institute Press wanted a spokesperson, I jumped up with joy and I read me, let me. And then I read it and I was blown away because it was not what I was expecting. But it's a wonderful, beautiful book.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I felt the same way and here's why I wanted to have you on the show today, for these young people especially and look at, this isn't just for these young people, this is for all the people that love them and each one of us that are trying to survive marriages and keep our families together and just trying to make sense of all this. This is what he does, Michael, doesn't he? In this book. It's not like you just said. It's not like his other books, where he pretty much talks about his experiences as an exorcist in various ways right here, don't you think it's kind of a handbook on how we get through this battle and understand this battle. He talks about all kinds of things in here, answers all kinds of questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really almost a mini-catechism for stealing yourself up for spiritual warfare.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is. He even quotes that famous and I should have opened it up that famous line from St Paul in Ephesians 6, right, we're not fighting against the flesh, we're fighting against powers and principalities, about the darkness and the rulers of this age. St Paul writes about this 2,000 years ago and it's more real, I think, today. I mean, you know, I don't know about St Paul, he went through his stuff, right, but it can't be any more real today than what we're all experiencing in this battle. I mean, don't you feel it yourself?
Speaker 1:I certainly do. I think there's long been a war against what is good, true and beautiful, since Adam and Eve. The devil has waged that war, but now he has many, many allies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, St Lucia, and I think this is the crux of the battle. I mean, we see it in a lot of manifestations, but St Lucia, the famous and main visionary I would say main just because she lasted so long she died in 2005, the same year John Paul did and St Lucia is a good friend of mine, we speak all the time. Paul did, and St Lucia is a good friend of mine, we speak all the time and she said you know so, she had visions of our Blessed Mother at Fatima and after that. And she said the last great battle between our Lord and Satan is taking place in essence, and it's over marriage and the family, and we see the most brutal attack against young people and against children. Do you see that?
Speaker 1:Oh yes, especially against young people. My heart goes out to young men, especially because I know I struggled, you know, with having so many things, conflicted and telling me what's good, what's the right path for me to go forward. And it's only and I was, you know, I was the MySpace kid. It's only gotten worse. I can't even imagine I didn't have YouTube growing up, so I can't even imagine what young men are struggling with right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're searching and they're looking for the truth and this is what Father Amorth brings out over and over and over again is truth and reality. Truth and reality. Where do you find the truth? What is real? How should I live my life right? What is my identity? All those things that John Paul spoke of and our saints spoke of and Jesus Christ spoke of and Scripture speaks of, and Father Amorth just brings it up through his own lens and does it in a slightly different angle sometimes, but you could tell exactly where he's going with this. It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1:It is beautiful and what I love about this book more than anything, rather than he warns against being too afraid of the devil but also is cautious. The devil's real. We have to accept it. But we can't give him too much credit because he is not nearly as powerful as the Lord.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he's powerful to us. If we let him in, you know, if we let him in and that's what's happening in our culture, of course is we're rejecting our protection, which is our Lord, as you just stated, and we're allowing this. You know, I was talking to an exorcist myself, a friend of mine, a priest, of course, and he said you know these portals, jack, that families are opening up fathers in their own homes by looking at pornography and doing different things. You open a portal to evil in your own house and you bring that evil upon all of us.
Speaker 2:When we're speaking to young people, sometimes we said well, didn't somebody watch over what you're looking at? How did you get into pornography, how did you get into these problems? And they said you know, my dad watches porn, and I didn't think it was a big deal. And, oh man, you just go. You know there's so many fatherless kids, first of all and Father Amorth speaks of that in here and how fathers are supposed to be the educators of their children. They are supposed to be passing down the faith. Not only are we meeting too many young people that don't even know their fathers, they grew up out of wedlock or have fathers that don't share the faith with them, live in the same house, perhaps love them, but aren't sharing the faith, and when you don't, you just leave these young people vulnerable.
Speaker 1:It's almost a form of neglect, to my mind, because you're leaving. It's like bringing up a child and never explaining money to them. What are you preparing them for? The world is going to chew them up and spit them out. Well, what are we doing when we don't talk about good and evil, when we don't talk about the true, the good and the beautiful and tell them where to find it? We're basically putting kids out, unequipped to deal with the world as it is.
Speaker 2:It is and we're not giving them. There's no hope, then, because when they get captured into these things. They become anxious, depressed. Too many of them are suffering from various mental illnesses. At least, when you share the faith, they'll turn around at some point right and they'll say there's got to be something more. But they don't have anything. It's like you know, it's like starting to fall down a sand dune, with that sand sliding down and there's no base, there's no foundation.
Speaker 2:At least if you have a foundation, you're going to stop at some point and God can catch you and you know you bounce back up again. It was very interesting. Angelo Simone alluded to this in the foreword to the book and he's speaking to all of us, in these young people, and he says this you are drawn to and I'm going to paraphrase a little bit but you're drawn to pause and reflect on your own life and then further drawn to place your life in harmony with the purpose for which God created you. And so when Father Amorth speaks of evil and Satan, he didn't want us to lose our focus on, and to continue to glimpse the goodness of God, the kindness of God which, as you alluded to, already holds the devil in check.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's one of my favorite things about this book is it's so practical in that the best defense against the devil is to shore up on the good, to remember who your Lord is, to go to confession, go to Mass and to pray daily. With that, we have no fear of him whatsoever. We don't even have to pay him any mind outside of acknowledging that he is fighting us and we are waging a war. We don't have to be obsessed and worried about him because we already have all the protection we need.
Speaker 2:You know, that reminds me of this exorcist, this friend of mine that I just mentioned.
Speaker 1:That's what he said.
Speaker 2:He said Jack, if you just live a traditional right, a basic Catholic life, like you said, prayer, we have the holy water, we have sacraments, we have the rosary, we have great literature, we have great saints and philosophers that have come down through history, the GK Chestertons of the world, st Augustines of the world. You know, everything is there but we're not doing it. You know, and too many young people don't read anymore and we're really trying to get them with these books and books like we're talking about today that I think they'll all find interesting because I think they'll experience this in their own heart. But when they sit, michael and you're a writer, when you sit in great literature, it changes your mind. We talked about this on our last show. It changes your mind.
Speaker 2:We talked about this on our last show how Alessandro, who murdered little Saint Maria Goretti, and he said later on how reading dark literature and things that brought poison into his mind really brought him into this evil story. And it wasn't until Maria Goretti appeared to him. Remember, michael, oh, yes. And then he started to read great literature and he became a great reader of great Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and many others, and they changed his whole heart and they changed his whole mind. We don't realize that, do we, michael? When we bring porn and these graphic images into our hearts, we change, we change, we change we change.
Speaker 2:We change.
Speaker 1:We oftentimes not for the better. It warps our sense of reality, our sense of other human beings. But the good news is that the opposite can happen. When you read good books, when you read great, you know the saints or the Bible, you suddenly find that your mind has changed. You're softening a little bit because you've learned about forgiveness, you're kinder to people because you learned that's the better way to go about. And I mean I know good literature has saved my life and I know that's true for many, many people out there.
Speaker 2:Unpack that a little bit when you say that Sure.
Speaker 1:I would say, like I've written about it before, but I suffer from a very severe form of depression, and when I say severe, it's been a life-altering having to deal with it. And GK Chesterton was that first author who really, because he himself suffered from very debilitating depression. I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2:As much as I've read GK Chesterton, I never realized that no one would, because he Basically what happened is.
Speaker 1:He realized that the way to conquer his depression was with wonder and that little insight to look at everything, to look at a blade of grass or a piece of chalk and go there is so much good in this world. He had a phrase that the world doesn't lack from a want of wonders, but a lack of wonder. And that's exactly what. What it completely changed my mind. Suddenly I look at trees and I'm thinking thank you, lord, for this wonderful bit of greenery I get to see every day. It gives me oxygen, it gives me shade and I get to look at it and just admire it for being in existence. And that profoundly changed my life as a young man. It took me from going okay, this is never going to happen. Maybe suicide's the only answer, maybe that's the only logical conclusion to this. And Jehoshaphat said no, there's a much more logical conclusion and that's to go out and realize the wonder of God's creation.
Speaker 2:And now, look, I don't want to get too personal with you, but did you start to come out of it then? And then you know what do you have to do today? Because there's people listening to this show that also are anxious and they also get depressed and they also have felt the suicide. And we talk to these young people all the time. You can go into a very dark place, you know, sometimes you have to see a doctor or psychologist, et cetera, but most of the time my understanding you know from talking to these young people it's not always a pill that helps and it's not always therapy that helps. You need God, you know. So, a good, I think, a good therapist and I'm not a doctor, but I've just seen it in action A good therapist will lead you, in fact, carl Young spoke about this.
Speaker 2:He said this I'm going to just paraphrase again and you've probably heard this, but it was in A man in Search of His Soul Great book. I have it on my shelf and he said in the last 35 years. No, he says as of the age of 35, he's getting old now and he's looking back at his life and he's saying, okay, whoever came to me Now, he's a famous psychologist, right, he's known all over the world. He lives in Switzerland, but rich clients are coming in, everybody's coming in to see him, and he's looking back how did I help people and why did they come to me? And he analyzes it and he goes, you know, in the from the age of 35 years old and up.
Speaker 2:He's talking about his clients. He said I, I realized nobody ever came to me that hadn't lost what mankind has had from the very beginning, which is a religious outlook on life. And he said this, which is just profound. He said and I realized no one was truly healed that did not regain what they had lost, that religious outlook on life. This is Carl Jung, you know, who was a secularist in the beginning. You know he came to believe in God, maybe not the Christian God, but he knew there was a higher power.
Speaker 1:He certainly did, and I think he hit the nail on the head in that analysis because, while I've been helped wonderfully by some great therapists and doctors and I still need to see them on occasion what really helped me, especially this last year when I just had one of the hands down the worst year of my life, really oh yes, oh yes. And what really helped me, strangely enough, was when I started compiling stories for my book and reading all these wonderful stories from the saints and you know, visiting ghosts and talking to heavenly spirits and meeting angels, and all these wonderful stories that challenged me to look at the world anew, new and I think, what we don't get in a lot of materialist secularism, we, if this is all there is, what on earth are we doing? You know, why am I getting out of bed if this is all there is? All there is is money. You know, billy joel asked famously is that all you get with your money? A canoe car and a nice house at hackasack, like?
Speaker 1:yeah that's all. But, suddenly the world is so much more and there's so much more to live for, and suddenly death isn't nearly the scary thing, because there is hope there too. And I think that just taking the world and almost like Copernicus did with his new solar system, change everything. Change how you orbit the world Now. Suddenly it's a different place again, and when your heart is filled with that wonder and that gratitude I can speak from personal experience it changes everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's beautiful to see, if you had to. You know, besides GK, look, I'm on a roll here just because I deal with this and I love to give people someone to listen to, to talk to when you feel let's say you feel a depression coming on. I have a brother that suffered from depression for a long, long time and when you feel that coming on, are there any go-to things that you do now? I mean, I've never had depression, so I'm here as someone just asking for others. Maybe Is there with these telltale signs? I suppose can you feel something coming on.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, there are telltale signs. The telltale sign I look for is when I start seeing meaninglessness in everything, when I think there's no meaning to anything we do. I think especially young men right now. I had a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist who said that she swears young men will crawl over a broken glass to find meaning. And that has been true for me and true for a lot of men I know.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, wow. Say that again, because I'm looking at that sword behind me again. This is what that battle's about. So can you say that again, because I don't want them to lose what you said.
Speaker 1:Sure no. I had a friend who's a psychiatrist who told me she really believed that young men would crawl over broken glass to find meaning, because they just can't find it in this world.
Speaker 2:Wow, now she knew that from the experience of her own practice Exactly, and she's not even a Catholic, this friend of mine.
Speaker 1:She's not a Catholic we haven't had a good conversation about God in a while but I don't think she's even Christian. But she saw this just in her patience that they needed that search for meaning. We're both fans of Viktor Frankl and his book Man's.
Speaker 2:Search for Meaning.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, there's another great book, oh yeah, if anyone's listening to this, we're recommending a lot of great books. That one, please put it in your books to read in 2025.
Speaker 2:I agree, I agree. What a story. You know what? I'd love to get her back on with you sometime, if she's willing just to talk to these young people that we're talking to Michael. So reach out to her, we'd love to do that. You know, father of more brings us back to the beginning and it's very, very important. You know. He talks about Genesis 3, where this evil comes in. But, but, but I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:You, you mentioned creation, the beauty of it. Yesterday I was, I was sitting outside, it was nice out, I went out on my bicycle, I did a nice workout and I was sitting outside, the sun was out and and then, very quickly, a storm came up. Instead of going inside, I sat there Now, it wasn't raining yet, but lightning and the dark clouds came and the winds started to blow and I just was. It was spectacular in its power and, to your point, right, you just start to, instead of running in, I just start to look at the trees and I heard the birds, you know, getting quieter, you know, and they had been singing so loud. And then the power of the storm, and then the rain started and I still sat out there and it was just amazing, you know, and I, and I thought the wonder of god, huh, and yet, yet, of all of that, we are created, we're the crown of creation.
Speaker 1:Yes, we are.
Speaker 2:So when you really want to see this and you really want to get out, you see other human beings right, and we receive that power, that grace, that beauty of God and we see it through creation. We internalize that, but then we have to go out and we have to become that and that's what we're trying to do. The name of the podcast is the Become who you Are podcast, because we want to share this, michael, because when we don't share our experiences with people and Father Amorth again, this is coming right from his book we have to share our experiences and if we don't, then they're lost. So he takes us back all the way, just like John Paul loved to do in Genesis. I'm going to read you just a couple of verses from Genesis, chapter one.
Speaker 2:You know, this is the first thing God tells us in the Bible, so it must be important, right? Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. So it's our O-U-R. Right? I'm not up here by myself, I'm a community. And then let him have dominion over the fish, the sea, the birds, all of this creation, he says. And then he says he like, draws back into himself, you know. And he says God created man in his image, in the divine image. He created them, male and female. He created them. God blessed them, saying be fertile, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. It's yours, these are all gifts I'm giving you this creation, but you're the crown of creation, you're in my image and it's because we have reason, we have intellect, we have free will. And here, michael, with no sin, we're in union and communion with God, right? I mean, this is what God wanted for us not to be walking alone in our anxiety and our fears, even in our depressions, right, but to walk with him.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and what I love also about. As Thomas Aquinas pointed out with Genesis, god did it completely of his own volition. He had no need for us. He doesn't need us. He's not lonely or anything like that. The Trinity is able to conceive itself in love, but he did it because he wanted to. So you and I are both creations of God, not for any need of God's part, but because he wanted to create you. He wanted you and I to be here today and have this conversation, and he wanted all the listeners to be with us. And that's suddenly that little truth that I have to remind myself constantly is a life-saving truth, because suddenly no man is useless or repetitive.
Speaker 2:They're an unrepeatable miracle in God's creation we're going to ask you to join us by helping us get the word out. So, if you can make sure you subscribe and then hit like, no matter which platform you're on, remember, remember that the Become who you Are podcast is on audio and any music or podcast app we're up on Rumble YouTube. You can find us on X. When you do subscribe, hit the like button. A couple things to share with people Love Ed. Love Ed is just such an important apostolate, so it's within our apostolate, the John Paul II Renewal Center. This helps parents give the talk to their children. We're trying to push back on all these gender ideologies and the porn culture and give children the truth and do it through their parents, and we help them do that. The other one is really taken off too. It's Claymore Miletus Christi, soldiers for Christ. That's where you see the sword behind me. That's the big sword. That's our logo for Claymore, that's a Claymore sword.
Speaker 2:And this is for young people, especially young men, gen Z, high school, all the way through, let's call it, until they're 30 years old or so. They're starting to really understand that something nefarious, very toxic, is going on in the culture, and so they're stepping into the church and we're discipling them. So we want to help get the word out about those things and, lastly, try to consider at least consider financially supporting us. Everything's in the show notes. Hey, god bless you. Thanks again. We'll be right back to today's show. You know, what did Jesus ask us? And this Father, this Creator, this God, the Father, what did Jesus ask us to call him? What did Jesus himself call him? Do you remember the term?
Speaker 1:I remember he called us friends, but he called them Abba. Abba, that's right.
Speaker 2:And that translates into Papa, Not only like Father, my Father, but, yes, my Father, but Abba, Papa. And this is the relationship Jesus says that God wants with us, like a Papa, like a Father. So not only did he create us, but he created us in this beautiful love story. When we walk away from him, like we did in Genesis 3, we said no, we'll be like gods right, We'll call good evil and evil good. And this is exactly what we're seeing today.
Speaker 1:Yes, we. As Father Amorth points out, even going back to creation. The devil's best trick is to tempt us to believe that we know better than God or to see God as an unjust huskmaster. We have to rebel against and again still knowing better than him, and that's the furthest thing from the truth. It was untrue with Adam and Eve and it's untrue now.
Speaker 2:And you know, I listened to a little snippet of the diary of Sister Faustina every morning. It's part of this Claymore battle plan. We're on our knees, we open up our heart, and then I listen to a little snippet on my app and it's 30 seconds usually, but if you listen to it every day, you just hear Jesus speaking to Sister Faustina and this is for all of us with the divine mercy image. Right, jesus, I trust in you behind me. And the water and the blood pours out, huh, the water of forgiveness and redemption, and then the blood itself, which is his body and blood that he just wants us to consume so that we become united again, as it was kind of in the beginning.
Speaker 2:Right, we'll never get our innocence totally back, but St Paul says says this is even better, and I'm going to bring this up because Father O'Marth does. He says God permits evil. He has to permit it. Right, the devil just can't do anything with us, but he only permits it. St Paul would say up to our strength. Right, it can never really overpower us. If we understood that, and the saints and the mystics understood this very well. And so at the end of the day, you know he's calling us back into this love story, isn't he?
Speaker 1:He absolutely is, and I think that's a very beautiful image. He's calling us back to it, which is the literal meaning of conversion. Returning to you know, going back to where you needed to start again and that's probably one of my favorite Christian messages is no matter what you've done, start again and that's totally fine.
Speaker 2:It is totally fine and he permits this. So we actually experience evil. In other words, when I reject God or I'm just tempted to the point where maybe I didn't reject God but I still fall, we're going to fall. St John the evangelist says if you don't call yourself a sinner, you're a liar. He said because we are. But he said God permits it for our own experience. He's going to be there for us. He's watching, just like a dad here on earth, like my dad, or with my kids or my grandkids. You allow them to take some steps away from you, right?
Speaker 2:They're going to have to experience life, and when they experience life, they're going to experience evil. When I accidentally open up again this porn app or whatever when I'm young, and then this evil comes in, there's all kinds of things like this right and I experience this evil Sometimes. As Father Amorth would say, god allows us to experience this evil so that we understand it, we understand the force behind it, and so when we turn back to him, we don't take for granted that grace and that love and we can distinguish it.
Speaker 1:This is very powerful, I think, yes, it's a powerful, and you see it in people's lives. So many lives I've seen where it has changed so much for the better because they suddenly have that meaning in their lives and there's someone they know who loves them and is working for their good and you have to know you're loved.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know that.
Speaker 2:You have to know you're loved. And yes, you have to know you're loved and you have to open yourself up to God. When you do, when you ask, you know I love. Matthew 7, verse 7, and Jesus turns to his disciples and he's teaching all of us. He said ask, seek and knock. And then he talks about look, if you go to the Father or your Father on earth and you ask for a fish, you know, I don't remember the exact analogy, but is he going to give you a rock or something you can't eat or whatever? No, he's going to give you a fish if he can right. Yes.
Speaker 2:And he says if you ask, seek and knock, he says what do you think we're going to ignore you or not give you what you want? You know, and, of course, for those who have tried this, god's not a vending machine. You don't put a dollar and get the candy bar out because he wants you to battle with him, right? You know, we don't just get the free right and we wouldn't want it as men, just like you alluded to earlier, we would run over broken glass. I think you said right To find the truth, and so we have to put some effort in and we don't care. That's why we have the sword. We're there to battle for our own hearts and for those of our loved ones, but we're doing it with God. That changes everything.
Speaker 1:No, I think you're right on that one having a partner in that, not just in God, but in the whole communion of saints, that there is always someone praying for you and a God intervening for you.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what you said earlier right, that you start to meet these saints and mystics and these different people. Can you build a relationship with those saints and mystics and angels you mentioned?
Speaker 1:Oh, I believe so. In fact, I'm of the belief that sometimes we choose our patron saints, but just as often a patron saint chooses us Like. I don't think St Joseph and I are like this because of just accidents of history. I think he and I are attracted to one another for a very good reason and I've seen his prayer and his power, so I'm a huge fan of St Joseph.
Speaker 2:In case anyone wonders, yeah, now what draws you, you to him and vice versa, do you think?
Speaker 1:I think what attracts me to him is that he does his—throughout the Gospels. You know, he doesn't actually say anything in the Gospel, we don't have any great lines or great quotes from him. But we know his character because when the archangel Gabriel comes to him and tells him what's going on with Mary, he immediately acts, and he does that multiple times. He doesn't, you know, say, well, what's in it for me? Well, you know, why would I do that? He just he hears his duty and he acts on it and he fulfills his duty to the best he can. And that's something I find. I think that's like just an ideal form of masculinity in general, like when you know what your duty is, you just do it. You don't need to wait for thanks or a parade, you're just going to do it because you know it's going to be better for the world if you do.
Speaker 2:And I could see St Joseph and I think this is a model for fathers, that it's in our activities with our sons. You know, you can see St Joseph, you know, teaching him how to be a carpenter, say, and you know something would happen. And he say, and you know something would happen. And he'd say, see, and he'd give him a life lesson, I'm sure. And the same thing, you know when we're catching fish, right, and say, my son or my daughter catches a fish, and you say, hey, glory to God, huh, thank you God for that fish. Just simple things. And you're teaching, teaching teachings, or you're teaching patience. Hey, let's have some patience.
Speaker 2:You know, not everything comes to you at once. This is what a father does. You know, we think, well, how do I get this down to my kids? Hey, spend time with your kids, you know, have a faith, so you have something to share, but you don't have to push it. You pray on that. And the same thing with your friends, your neighbors, you know, whoever. Sometimes I know in my own life, when I want to share something with someone that I think they need to hear and I don't know how to say it, the best thing for me is not to say it Not right then, but I pray on it and the Holy Spirit will give me the words at the right time and the right place. He does it over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:Amen to that. That's exactly among the things I love about St Joseph is.
Speaker 1:there's a great story out here in new mexico where saint joseph built a miraculous staircase for a group of nuns who needed a staircase up to their chapel so they sit, pray a novena, a carpenter shows up with his tools, builds them the staircase, leaves without any payment, without gratitude or anything, and the nuns could never figure out who it was. No one knew this mysterious man. Even the lumberyard said he didn't get the lumber from us, so we don't know. And that, to me, is such a great model of Joseph. He didn't need to have a parade for him. Like I said, he just knew he had a duty and he loved the people who were praying to him and he said okay, I'll help you out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you remember how long ago that was, that story? That was in 1870.
Speaker 1:Sometime in the 1870s in Santa Fe it's still there, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:It's no longer a chapel, but the staircase is very much there, and architects and engineers have studied it. It's an incredible piece of work.
Speaker 2:Now, what is it in right now? I mean, can people visit it and see it?
Speaker 1:Yes, it's in what's called the Loretto Chapel, which used to belong to the Loretto sisters. It's now a museum and a wedding venue. The staircase everyone just Google St Joseph's Staircase, it will come up. It's a spiral staircase with no support beams or a center railing to support it, so it's self-supporting, which takes a high quality of craftsmanship, and well we know Joseph was a carpenter, so it makes sense that he would just have this knowledge to build such a wonderful staircase.
Speaker 2:That's what I remember reading that it was very unusual, very difficult, the way this was built, right the way St Joseph built it. Do you know what city that's? In Santa Fe? Okay, santa Fe. My son covers parts of New Mexico on business and I'm going to have to tell him about that. I'll see him next week in Colorado. By the time this show airs I will have been there and I hope to relate that to him.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the other things that we have to be careful of today is this abuse of language, the changing of language. Again, father Amort says stay with reality, stay with what's true. When I see these gender ideologies and we call it, you know, you tell young children that a boy can become a girl, which is not reality, which is not truth, which is scientifically impossible. But we start grooming them early and we do that with these use of pronouns and we have to be very careful with this. Somebody asked me, jack, why are you against using pronouns? What's the big deal? And I said it's a big deal because when you walk away from reality, when you walk away from truth, you can get and you can lead these people, these young people. See, truth is a power.
Speaker 2:You know, Plato talked about that. He talked about our sensual power, eros. He would call it. Eros is the Greek goddess of love, so it was a sensual movement of the heart. But he said, with that sensual movement it doesn't just stop there, it's seeking that movement of the heart and also for what's true, good and beautiful, especially the beauty of love. What is that right?
Speaker 2:And so when you distort and twist truth and reality, just like I read about, god created us in his image, male and female. He created them when you distort these things, as even some people in the church, we got the Father James Martins of the world, et cetera, et cetera, distorting this truth and I hope Pope Leo does something with them. Francis loved them, for whatever reason, and you think well, and of course we're supposed to love him. I have to love Father Martin, of course, but we have to point out that we have to point out these lies, because when you abuse language, when you don't speak the truth, people really get hurt. And so when a young person says call me, they call me them plural for a single person, you know again, satan can move into these areas and they're more dangerous than you think. Any comments on that?
Speaker 1:Sure Well, Father Amorth does talk about that quite a bit in this book that we need to always remember the truth and to cling to it. I think the lies start even younger now. When we tell people that they're nothing but a clump of cells in the product, I'm not necessarily trying to say that we're not made up of cells. We are, obviously, but we're so much more than that. We're not just, you know, a skin suit full of organs. We're much, much more than that. And when we reduce our humanity down to basically just another animal in the animal kingdom, well, no wonder people are frustrated and depressed and having trouble with things because they don't realize their own value. Like you said earlier, you have to love yourself and you have to love your real self. You have to be able to see yourself as God sees you, which is a wonderful part of his creation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we are fallen you know and God knows that God knows that and so he, you know.
Speaker 2:That's why you know, when you look at a bit of crucifix, that's love being poured out. But again, the second word for love John Paul pointed out so often is mercy. And of course he is because the Father knows we didn't come into this neutral world, we came into a world at war. Cs Lewis points this out. When Christ came in, he would say it's like he came in behind enemy lines and now we had an invasion of the good. And this is what we know. And we have to seek this because I think you have to to your point there. We have to decide which one of these statements is true.
Speaker 2:Either you're an accident of history, right, just biology. To your point there. We have to decide which one of these statements is true. Either you're an accident of history, right, just biology. Or you're created. And that's really the only two ways. Either I am created or I'm just an accident. Atoms hitting atoms hitting atoms. But when we look out in the world, our heart seeks the truth. You know this is different than the animals. If you say I'm just a blob of tissue, then why do I have reason and intellect? Why do I have free will. Why do I not just let nature, like a dog is gonna, you know, go after a female in heat and without any repercussion? I mean, this is it. You know, this is the story here. Well, that's what they do in nature. And, of course, too many human beings live like that now, because they're disconnected from their reason, from their intellect. You know, bishop Sheen talked about this and he said you know, when you walk away from God, your intellect and your reason can become, in essence, very unreasonable. And aren't we seeing this today?
Speaker 1:Oh yes, also, something else Fulton Sheen said that I have always taken to heart is you have to live how you believe, because if you don't, you're going to start believing. Believe that, and I can't do that for very long, before long. If I'm living like a hedonist or as if my life doesn't matter and it's just a clump of cells and I'm an accident of history, I'm going to believe that, no matter what I say upon my lips, and I'm going to take that into my heart. So Fulton Sheen often challenged people to use the title of your podcast Become who you Really Are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you have to declare it. That's such a great point. St Paul says that in Romans 10.10,. You know, I say I believe, which I do right, and then I'm justified in my heart, but then I have to go out and confess with my lips. He said when you justify in your heart, then you're basically redeemed. But he said when you confess with your lips, then you are saved, then you are saved. In other words, I have to put into practice and I have to proclaim it. Because when we speak the words in truth now, right, when I speak about reality, truth, no, I'm not gonna use a pronoun. No, a baby is not just a clump of cells. No, a man can't become a woman. I have to speak those truths and I have to do it in love, right? St Edith Stein, who became St Teresa of Benedicta of the Cross, right before she went to the gas chamber she said speak the truth in love and love people in the truth. One without the other is a destructive lie.
Speaker 1:I need to read more Edith Stein. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:You know read, if you want to look that up John Paul, he canonized her and that was part of his homily. So just if you Google canonization of St Teresa, of Benedicta or Edith Stein, who was also a philosopher, of course, with John Paul's homily. It's a beautiful homily. I printed that out years ago and I've never forgot that. As we start to wind down here today, it's so important, I think, for all of us to realize that when we have wars and bickering and relationship problems and bickering and relationship problems GK Chesterton was so good at this, you know saying hey, you know, love your enemy, because a lot of times your family is your enemy in essence, you know, so they're one and the same.
Speaker 2:He said sometimes and it's true, and I remember this years ago, I remember about 10 years into my marriage, just a long time ago now, and I thought it was irreconcilable.
Speaker 2:We were done and I was just looking for a time to get out of this thing right. We had three small children at that time and then I got into John Paul's work and in essence I heard him say and Christopher West also, and other people studying theology of the body, you know, your wife is not the enemy and other people studying theology of the body. You know, your wife is not the enemy, the enemy is the enemy, and he would like nothing better than to pick you two off over stupid, idiotic things. And sometimes they're not so stupid and sometimes they're not so idiotic, but a lot of times they are, or at least they can be reconciled. But when I started to look at my wife and I started to realize you know what? What happens if he's right? What happens if she's not my enemy? The enemy is the enemy. And I started to get on my knees and pray and, just like you did when you were suffering from darkness, say of depression and stuff, you get a different lens, don't you?
Speaker 2:And you start to see the world through a different lens, and it does change things.
Speaker 1:It does Sometimes we need to take. We can become so accustomed to seeing the same people, the same things every day and it becomes monotonous for us. But if we can just take a minute, even a few minutes a day to try to look at things the way God sees us, the way that God sees the world, you know, a sunset's no longer a sunset. It's God every morning saying do it again.
Speaker 2:Yes do it again. It's beautiful, huh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a wonderful thing to look at the world that way, and for me it's almost like the darkness becomes illuminated with a bright light, and I can see things a lot more clearer then.
Speaker 2:Yes, boy, that's a beautiful image, isn't it? That's a beautiful way to look at the world. Here I would say that it's our responsibility, as we start to wind down Michael, here, to share this truth with people. I think that this book, and especially for young people when we're talking about young people, I'm not talking about little kids here, we're talking mostly to 17, 18, some 16-year-olds, but mostly 17, 18, and up for this, claymore Miletus Christi Certainly able to read books if they want to, and this is not a hard book to read, I wouldn't say. I would say we've got a lot of good books out there. Get some of these books that we're recommending. This is a great way to start because, again, I think this is a handbook to really define the battle. God most powerful, and I'm going to hold this up and again I'll put this in. I hope you can see that. And look, there's St Michael with the sword. Again, yes, always.
Speaker 2:Why does he always have a sword right? There's a reason for that, I think, and I have a little altar set up. I mentioned to you right before we came on the show. It's right in my office. I pray there every morning with our Blessed Mother Crucifix, st Michael, a picture of John Paul II, candle, holy water, the blessed salts, etc. And I just get down in front of that. I don't miss that, because if I miss that my day is not the same. And so even when I go on trips, I say those prayers even if I'm not home. But the point again being, we need to help people, educate them into prayer life. It's not time-consuming, at least in the beginning. I think you become more consumed with it because it's so beautiful, to your point, but it's. You know, prayer is like an all-day thing. You know here, with the divine mercy, jesus, I trust in you. Just say that, jesus, I trust in you, and that short prayer that'll change your heart. You say that enough.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, no, that's one of those things. Make that your daily affirmation. If you have to Put it on a post-it note Jesus, I trust in you. I have a similar thing where I, when I'm in the depths you know the worst kind of depression I have an icon of Christ that I say you're God, I'm not, please help, and I think that little thing sometimes is in a moment I'll feel just an instantaneous bit of relief of going well, yeah, I'm acknowledging our relationship and I'm acknowledging the one who can help me.
Speaker 2:What's the prognosis? It sounds like you've been at this for a long time. Is there progress with this? I mean, you're describing progress, but I want you to say I don't want to put words in your mouth Can you, as we go out here, can you just share just in a minute, you know just like? Is there hope for me?
Speaker 1:if I'm suffering like this, and will it get better at all, or am I just stuck with this battle? It will get better. It's going to be like a lot of things. I almost compare it to having diabetes. You're not going to necessarily cure it overnight, but you're going to find treatment plans. You might find a new diet and exercise regimen. You're going to find treatment plans. You might find a new diet and exercise regimen. You're going to find something that will help, and those things will make your life so much better and, more than anything, it will make the battles a little lighter, especially when you realize for me, who's adopted a few saints in my little army of people I pray for and ask them to pray for me. You have allies in the battle and that can make the biggest difference in the world.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, thank you. So we'll leave with hope. I'll remind everybody download the Claymore Militist Christie Battle Plan. The link will be in the show notes, along with the link to where you can purchase this book from Sophia Institute Press and Michael Litchens. You are a pleasure, young man. I hope we get you back on the show. Maybe we can come on and talk about your book. What's the name of that?
Speaker 1:book. It's called Weird Catholic Handbook. You can also find it at sophiastudiocom. If you ever wondered about weird things like bone churches or old Catholic ghost stories, that's the book for you.
Speaker 2:Beautiful. I got to get a copy of that. That sounds awesome, brother. Thank you. Hey, thanks everyone. Thanks for joining us today. Appreciate it. Talk to you again soon. Bye-bye.