Become Who You Are
What’s the meaning and purpose of my life? What is my true identity? Why were we created male and female? How do I find happiness, joy and peace? How do I find love that lasts, forever? These are the timeless questions of the human heart. Join Jack Rigert and his guests for lively insights, reading the signs of our times through the lens of Catholic Teaching and the insights of Saint John Paul ll to guide us.
Saint Catherine of Siena said "Become who you are and you would set the world on fire".
Become Who You Are
#611 God is a Person, Not an Idea--Transforming Your Spiritual Life With Father Wayne Sattler
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Claymore Milites Christi Friday Episode!
We're living in what might be the most toxic culture in human history, yet something remarkable is happening. Young people are waking up, sensing there must be more to life than what modern society offers. Their hearts are restless, seeking authentic meaning beyond the chaos.
Father Wayne Sattler joins us to share wisdom from his powerful book "Remain in Me and I in You: Relating to God as a Person, Not an Idea." Drawing from his experience as both a parish priest and diocesan hermit, Father Sattler illuminates the profound difference between knowing about God intellectually and knowing Him intimately.
Fathers Book Remain in Me and I in You--Relating to God as a Person, Not an Idea
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Welcome to Claymore. Militus Christi, soldiers of Christ, I hope you're doing well. I can't believe. A week went by. I am looking out my office window and the sun was out, and you know, when I just my studio, I got done, I had a great prayer session this morning and I look out I think, well, the world's not so bad right. And then we get all this noise and we know that there's an attack on the human heart.
Jack:In spite of all the craziness going on, we're finding you, young men, who are getting their hearts back, or at least sensing something's, and they're looking to get my heart back. What is this crazy life all about? Huh, you've grown up in probably the most toxic culture in human history and we've gone over all that stuff. So where is our hope? Our hope is in Miletus Christi, as being soldiers of Christ, in Jesus Christ himself, who actually. It's a win-win situation because not only do you get your heart back, do you find peace, do you find some fulfillment in your heart that you know is solid. You got a solid foundation underneath you and then we go out and try to make the world a better place. It's a win-win situation because, at the same time, we're winning the battle for eternal life. This is just a temporal world, but we've unpacked so much of that. I just want to touch base with you on a couple crazy things that are going on, in case you're not aware of them.
Jack:In Colorado, they're just trying to ram through an abortion bill and HB 25-1312, the most extreme assault on parental rights and religious freedoms we've ever seen. It's a war on families that's going on, and so in that bill they define misgendering as child abuse. Parents could lose custody of their kids for using the wrong pronouns. This is going into law. Well, it's not passed yet, but this is what they're bringing forth today. Shields parents who traffic children into Colorado for irreversible gender surgery. So they're open. This is an open state. So if you can't get your child operated on or get them puberty blockers because your little girl thinks she's a boy and get her breasts cut off, we'll do it here in Colorado. Forces every school, including charter schools, to adopt radical gender transition policies. Redefines misgendering and dead naming as discrimination, forcing every Colorado business to bow before this ideology or face lawsuits. You can't make this up In this day where you know you look at something like a little boy or a little girl. They're so confused and the parents themselves that try to protect those kids from these ideologies are being under attack. It's amazing and not to be outdone.
Jack:Here in Illinois our governor thinks he's a hero of the people. It's insanity. So he wants to make Illinois the baby-killing capital of the world. You can kill them up to the time that they're ready to be born and if that child didn't die in an abortion attempt, we can just leave that child outside to die on its own. We can just leave that child outside to die on its own. And if the governor said if they actually escaped the womb, he said this, he goes.
Jack:We expanded Medicare to cover gender-affirming surgeries. We brought LBGTQIA plus curriculum into our schools so that all students can learn about the contributions of queer and trans trailblazers. I mean, we're rewriting history. Now you know there's no more heroes anymore. The real heroes now, in this new, defined way to look at the world, are the contribution of queer and trans trailblazers and trans trailblazers. He said the State Board of Education is implementing gender-inclusive policies to ensure that our schools are welcoming and affirming.
Jack:And I'm proud to say that my administration is the most diverse administration in state history. What does it mean to be diverse. It means there's no moral values anymore. We're all diverse, everything's okay. Well, something doesn't sit well in the human heart when that's going on.
Jack:At the same time, I'm going to bring up a couple other crazy things that you may or may not be aware of. The Europeans, the European countries, are getting ready to fall. We see this in Great Britain. We see this. Even the government of Sweden, the prime minister, said a couple of weeks ago there that he's lost control of the monopoly on violence. That's going on in Sweden and, I think, in many ways, the rest of Europe's right behind them. We've allowed all of these influx of radical Muslims and all kinds of things. What happens at the end? The morality just breaks down.
Jack:Bishop Sheen said that of the 22 major civilizations throughout history, 19 of them have fallen from inside, right from within. The moral rot within. We start to see that with the Biden administration here in the United States. So Trump again gives us a little window. It's chaotic out there. It's going to continue to be chaotic, because this is the great force. Sister Lucia of Fatima died not too long ago, 2005. So this is the decisive battle that we're in, the definitive battle between our Lord and Satan and it's over marriage and the family. This battle includes all of us and this marriage and the family. The focus of that attack is on children today. If they escape the womb, we're rendering them sterile. But you're seeing the whole of Western civilization unravel. Here in the United States we have a little window. It's a great time to be an American right now, but we all got to stand up.
Jack:We're seeing protests break out all over the country this last couple weekends, protesting Elon Musk and Doge Department of Governmental Efficiency. And why? Because we're cutting waste and corruption and spending and stuff out of there, and the deep state doesn't want anything to do with that. They're about power and money and so, anyways, we go on and what happens? It creates a restlessness in our own hearts, right, and in that restlessness, where do we find peace? Where do we find our hope? Where do we look around and say, no, no, there's got to be something more. The good thing about this is that you're waking up. So we got the Claymore Battle Plan. Always, I remind you, if you didn't already download this from our website, go under resources at the jp2reneworg. Everything's in the show notes Download. Go to resources. Download the Claymore Battle Plan In that battle plan it says there's an enemy that seeks to destroy humanity, and this is how it gets back to you now.
Jack:Satan doesn't have his own clay. He can only attack and destroy and distort what God has created good, which is the human person, body and a soul, body and a soul. Without this grace, without this power of Jesus Christ is sin and death. And you just see this all around us. This is what's coming in to Europe, attacking these children, marriages and the families, bringing this into the schools, like Pritzker just said. And so what's happening? And here's my main point today First, he's going to attack the individual human person, and this is right out of the battle plan.
Jack:This is page three, for he was created. He or she was created in the image of God, in love, by love and for love, for truth and love. This is where the battle between good and evil always begins, the evil one that targets the child in the womb. Next up, he's going to attack the individual human heart. If you escape the womb alive, he wants to isolate and separate us from God, and we live like cut flowers, right? We're disconnected from the source of life and love. So what do you do? How do you do that? Well, you got to restore your own heart first. You can't do anything, you can't give anything, you can't be anything to anybody until you're filled with divine life and love. So the first aspect this is page four to Claymore, miletus Christi is to get your own heart back, and this is part of spiritual formation, the first thing that we have to do With that.
Jack:All said, I brought a special guest on for today's episode. Father Wayne Sattler is going to be coming on. He wrote a book. Remain in Me and I in you, and what it says is relating to God as a person, not as an idea. You know, this is a great time Again. You can see the good and evil, you know, fighting out there. You can see those that are battling for life, battling for marriage and the family in prayer, receiving the sacraments, getting their hearts aligned back with God.
Jack:And so Father Wayne Sattler wrote this book. He was a hermit for a while. You're going to hear his story. He's coming up because I want to have this dialogue with him, and he didn't write this just for us as militants, as Christi. But he said to me and I don't remember if it's an interview or right before we came on that he had young people in mind when he was writing this book.
Jack:It's a great book for that, and so we're going to be talking about spiritual formation. We're going to be talking about knowing God first, loving God and getting into that relationship and then serving God in the world. It's two great commandments Love God, be filled with divine life and love, and then go out into the world and be that person of love. This is the battle and, again, this is a win-win situation. So don't think that, oh, what can I do? I'm only one person.
Jack:Well, you could save your own soul, right, when you turn to Christ and when you believe in your heart, right, that this is the Redeemer, that he gave his life for us, and then you confess him with your mouth. St Paul says I think it's Romans 10.10. You can go back and read that yourself. You confess him with your mouth, then you're saved. So when I believe in my heart, I'm justified. I'm justified, I'm lined up with God, I'm the branch that goes back into the vine. And then I confess them with my mouth and says yes, this is the truth, this is who we are and this is what we're built for. Right, our bodies and souls filled up with divine grace. That gives us the potential for human flourishing, potential for human freedom. It becomes efficacious when I confess it with my lips and this makes us whole. It starts to put us back together again In Ephesians 6, if you haven't read Ephesians 6 for a while, this is verse 10.
Jack:Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil, for we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities and powers and the world rulers of this present age, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places. Therefore, take the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand the evil and, having done so, proclaim it to others. Go read Ephesians 6. It goes on from there.
Jack:Before I bring Father Wayne on, I just want to thank our sponsor for today's show AIM Utility Advisors, who are owned and operated by the Lally family, who are local Catholic friends of ours and supporters of our work. With all of this craziness going on in the world, is your business prepared for the increased energy prices that are going to start in June of 2025? Is your business prepared for the increased energy prices that are going to start in June of 2025? Aim Utility Advisors is a family-owned energy brokerage and consultancy company that has been helping small and medium businesses reduce their energy costs for over 30 years. Aim will put together a straightforward savings plan tailored to your business needs. Aim operates without a quota, so you're going to request a no-pressure analysis for free through their website, which is aimenergygroupcom. That's aimenergygroupcom. See the show notes for my friend TJ Lally's direct number. I am very excited and grateful to have Father Wayne Sattler with me. Father, how are you Good to be with you?
Father Wayne Sattler:Very good A pleasure to be with you. Thank you for the invitation to be with you today.
Jack:Oh, my pleasure, my pleasure. So you're in the Diocese of Bismarck. You've been a priest since 1997. Today you serve as the Diocesan Spiritual Director for the Bismarck Diocese. In between all of that, father, you lived the life of a diocesan hermit for six years. So we have to hear a little bit about that.
Jack:Father recently wrote a book that speaks to the work that we're doing here at the John Paul II Renewal Center. So I'm very excited to unpack this book, especially for the young people we're meeting and the young men that we're meeting who are sensing Father in the midst of this toxic culture I don't think in history you can probably grow up in such a toxic culture and in spite of that it shows the power of the human heart. In spite of that, these young men that we're meeting 18, 19, even high school, but 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, they're saying something's wrong. They don't always know exactly what it is. They start to vote a little differently this time, not even quite sure why. They just sense something's wrong. So this is a great opportunity to disciple them and that's what we're doing through apostolate that our long-term listeners know called Claymore Amiletus Christi. Anyways, we're always looking for a reference, father, for something to help these young men in spiritual formation and doctrinal formation.
Jack:Right, but here's what you do. Here's what you do, and this is what's got me excited. The book is called Remain in Me and I in you, relating to God as a person, not as an idea. Of course, I'll make sure I get this in the show notes, but I just told Father before we came in, I'm going to buy a box of these, maybe multiple boxes, and I'm going to get them out to some of the young people that we're meeting. So, father, thank you so much. Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're at right now, mention you know, talk a little bit about what a diocesan hermit is and what got you there. And then your you know the reason that you wrote this book. What was the impetus behind all that?
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah, I think you know, no matter what age we might be raised in, there is this conflict of the soul that tries to find fulfillment in what this age has to offer. And what we're told might make us happy doesn't always make us happy. And, to be honest with you, in my own journey, I was engaged to be married and was preparing to take my LSATs a second time to get into a little bit better law school. And the closer I got to these goals that I thought were going to fulfill me, the more I realized that they weren't. And underneath that was just now. If it was my calling to do that, that's great and God would have fulfilled me as a married man and as a lawyer. But every time I would listen to him in prayer, there was this door being opened to the priesthood that I really wasn't interested in. I was much more interested in getting married and having a family and living out a career as a lawyer. But the closer I got to those goals, the more I realized that they weren't going to fulfill me in the same way that the Lord can, and that's the hunger that this book is trying to address that when we really encounter the Lord for who he is.
Father Wayne Sattler:As St Augustine would remind us, nothing else will satisfy us. And that's true for a priest and it's true for a layman that I often joke with married couples. I say getting married is about finding the love of your life. But the love of your life is not your spouse, it's Christ. And if you love him effectively, you will be a good spouse to your wife or husband because you'll be able to bring his love to them. And for the priest, then, the Lord is calling him in a specific way to join himself more deeply to that love, to bring them to more souls as well, to more people. And for myself, you know, I really wasn't versed so much in prayer. And then, as I got into the seminary, my spiritual director kind of recognized how old were you Father?
Father Wayne Sattler:Oh, good question. So actually I went short story or a long story short but out of high school I had a great scholarship to a state school and I went there first and then, after a year there, I actually went to the seminary in St Paul, minnesota and a year after that I dropped out, convinced that I was not called to be a priest. And then that's when I got married and engaged and then graduated from college there and I was 23 years old.
Jack:Now you said I got married and got engaged, but you got engaged to get married right Engaged to get married yeah, I'm sorry. Yes, yes, good catch.
Father Wayne Sattler:I did not get married. No. So then, the second time that I went to the seminary, I was 23 years old at that time. Second time that I went to the seminary, I was 23 years old at that time and I just, the more that I gave myself to the Lord in prayer, the more I received, and my spiritual director started to recognize that the Lord has been very generous in that time of prayer too, of drawing me into contemplation and kind of skipping over meditation. I kind of found it hard to meditate and that's when he started recommending that I discern the possibility of a contemplative vocation. And so in the breaks during school I went to school over in Rome, actually was blessed to meet Saint John Paul II a number of times.
Jack:Oh beautiful, Very beautiful.
Father Wayne Sattler:What a gift, beautiful, gift Beautiful.
Jack:I miss him.
Father Wayne Sattler:Oh, I do too. Yeah, as you said, today is the anniversary of his passing, as we're speaking.
Jack:Yes, it's 20 years since he passed in 2005. So amazing. You know, Father, he wrote this. In fact, I just wrote an article for the Catholic Exchange and I don't know if they published it or not yet, but anyways, I wrote in there a meditation or a homily for the next day which would have been Divine Mercy Sunday, and he wrote a meditation on divine mercy which he loved so much. He passed away the day before, on April 2nd this was on April 3rd, Divine Mercy Sunday. Would have he passed away the day before on April 2nd? This was on April 3rd? Divine Mercy Sunday would have been on April 3rd. On April 2nd he passed away, but it was red and I have that.
Jack:It's beautiful, Father, His heart is beautiful, but I sense something of him in your heart, that kind of depth that he would bring out then into the world, and that's, I think, kind of where you're going with this contemplation. Right, Look at John. Paul was something of a mystic, wasn't he? And in order to experience what you're talking about, that is kind of a mystical experience, isn't it, Father? And it's not exclusive to just a few people. I mean, at least the openness. The openness to this is something we should all be at least open to and walking in that journey and saying I'm going to be touched by God. He can speak to me, he can speak to me.
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah, there's a beautiful biography on John Paul II that recognizes that he's not a man that can be understood by the outside. It's through his interior life with the Lord and it's the impact of that relationship with, not an idea in our head, but with the living Lord. You know, that changes the perspective of our whole life and we see that very clearly in John Paul II and I saw it very clearly in my own life and that's the perspective that I'm awakened, this awareness of trying to bring this to others in this book. A lot of it revolves around this encounter with a sister during a retreat and she was preparing to make her final vows and she was, you know, had been a convert to the faith. Prior to conversion she had a position of real prominence in the world, just a beautiful soul, and she was just one step away from making her final vows.
Father Wayne Sattler:But she was questioning in her heart whether to do it or not and she confided to me that, you know, the summer before that she found herself drawn to this priest, that nothing physical had unfolded, but she kind of joked to me. She said, father, he wasn't even that great. She said what happens when Mr Wonderful enters the room? And I said, sister, if Mr Wonderful hasn't entered the room, we havea problem.
Father Wayne Sattler:And then it struck me that I should probably clarify that I wasn't talking about myself. You know, mr Wonderful has entered the room, can't you see that? And that was when my heart was open for this question to be asked for the first time. And I looked at her and said and I looked at her and said, sister, is God a person to you or an idea? Because he's a marvelous idea. And she was a very highly intellectual woman who had been engaged more by the idea of God and by the idea of Christ than by the person. And after a long, uncomfortable silence she raised her head and, with a very sad look, replied yeah, he seems to be more of an idea right now, father.
Jack:Yeah.
Jack:So, father, here's the question and how do we go from that idea? Here's these young people again that we're talking about, and this could be any age, right? I mean, look, I have a brother that's 11 months younger than me, that, through the death of his wife only a couple of years ago through cancer he was always a spiritual guy, you know, and he loved the idea again, right of God but to be touched deeply. And it was in this passing, right, in this passing of his wife with cancer. He had quit his job, he was taking care of her, bathing her, et cetera, and on her deathbed she was very anxious. She was very, very anxious and I said, bobby, my brother, I said I want to ask our parish priest he's so wonderful, I want him to come over and speak.
Jack:They were cradle Catholics, had walked away from the church, like so many of us, and anyways, at first she didn't want to have a priest come over because she thought that was giving up. Then I'm passing away now. Now I'm going to die if this happens right. And we explained to her that, no, this is a sacrament for the sick. Now it doesn'm going to die if this happens right. And we explained to her that, no, this is a sacrament for the sick now, it doesn't have to be just for death. But anyways, here I'm going to make this quick, but it just reminds me.
Jack:So father comes in. They let father come in. She's very anxious, very nervous, and my brother leaves the room for just a little while, comes back in around father, calls him back in around 20 minutes later she has a confession, receives the Eucharist and he walks in and he said Jack, the peace, the peace. She was there, right, she was present, but peace, he said Jack, I knew something happened. And so, father, this changed his heart. It was amazing. He would never miss Mass. Now. I mean the confession, the Mass, the sacrament. Anyways, the difference is, I'm just saying he encountered the person. He encountered the person. He experienced this Father. He's in his 60s, you know. So my point is it can go across the age group, but when I'm speaking to these young people, they're really confused, father. And so when you say what you're saying now, that there's a possibility for them to encounter not just Google information about God, but to counter them, this is very exciting and this is what your book is about, father.
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah, I guess you know, for me personally, just the more that I encountered this person. And just to be clear, we never stop falling into the trap of treating God as an idea, no matter how advanced we get in our spiritual life. It's something we have to be drawn back to again and again and again, of encountering the real person. And I guess for myself, when I started to really encounter him, I knew my life needed to revolve around that person, because he is the Mr Wonderful who has entered the room. I use the story of the rich young man, you know too, and how Christ, you know, encounters him and observes.
Father Wayne Sattler:From that, you're lacking in one thing. And it's like the craziest statement to make for anybody to come up to you and say, hey, you're lacking in one thing and refer to yourself. I mean, who can say that? Only God can say that yourself, I mean, who can say that? Only God can say that? And for me, it was that awareness that he is the one thing that I'm lacking. And the more that I gave myself to Him, the more I received. And that's what kind of led eventually to this, you know, discernment of a life as a hermit to avail myself to Him as much as I possibly can, you know, in this world.
Jack:Father, I'm going to have you get into this book, but just give us and I don't want to take too much time because we're going to run out of time but what does it mean to be a diocesan hermit? People are going to be asking me this afterwards and if you don't answer just at least briefly, I'm going to get emails and texts on this and I'm going to say, oh, I got to get back to Father. So what is that exactly? It's not just a hermit, it's a diocesan hermit. Is there a difference? And what does that mean? And can you do that in a minute or two, or would that take too long?
Father Wayne Sattler:I'll try to do it in a minute for you. Yeah, so most hermits are connected to a religious community or it's a community of hermits. So, like the Carmelites are hermits, some of them, the Carthusians are certainly hermits, you know, and it's a community of men living together, trying to live a life of prayer and penance, first for their own soul to live in union with God, because there's nothing more beautiful on this earth than a soul that's in union with him, and then for the Lord to use that in any way that he wants to for the good of the church and the world. So in the new Code of Canon Law 1987, they reinserted a code for a diocesan hermit, and a diocesan hermit is not part of religious community. They make their vows to the diocesan bishop, and so it can be.
Father Wayne Sattler:A lay person could do this, and there are a number of lay hermits out there who I'm aware of. And it could be a religious too, and it could be living out, as I did, in the middle of nowhere, in an abandoned farmstead, or it could be in the heart of the city too, and it's not about the location so much, it's about the way of life that they would follow and part of as a hermit. You would write a rule of life, you'd go through a period of discernment, as I did with my bishop you know whether this was really God calling us to do it or not and then you would make your promises to him and he would be your superior than the Dacian bishop would. So that's what, rather than we hear of a Dacian priest or a religious priest, and it doesn't mean that a Dacian priest isn't religious. It means that he's not part of a diocesan priest or a religious priest. And it doesn't mean that a diocesan priest isn't religious. It means that he's not part of a religious community like the Carmelites or Franciscans.
Jack:But you're not at that point, Father, you're living alone.
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah.
Jack:And you're not connected to a specific parish as a parish priest anymore. You've kind of dislocated or moved away, at least for a period of time, to be alone, right with.
Jack:God Okay, I hope that answers everybody's question. Now the book is split up into three parts. Right Knowing God, loving God, serving God. What you say here in this first part knowing God in my six years as a hermit, I came to appreciate the difference between solitude and isolation. Solitude is the conscious choice to be alone with God. Isolation is just being left alone. This is very important, I think, especially if I see this through a little bit of a turn, on the lens of so many young people I meet that are lonely, father, and I want you to speak to that.
Jack:Solitude is the conscious choice to be alone with God. Isolation is being left alone, and I really would like to tie this in a little bit. You can feel lonely and to open yourself up to what's called John Paul would call it original solitude. Actually, you know, in the garden, before even evil came in and it's a very powerful time, and we all need to spend that time, father, with God, irregardless of what your vocation is, what your journey is going to be. This is an important time, isn't it, father?
Father Wayne Sattler:Very much so. Yeah, one of the quotes that I really love in the book is of Mother Teresa and she would ask her own sisters do you really know the living Jesus?
Father Wayne Sattler:not through books, but by being alone with him in your heart. And that's solitude, the conscious choice to be alone with God. And there's the beautiful quotes, many it's accredited to different people because it's such an ancient and well-grained quote that the man who has God with him is never less alone than when he is alone. And that's very true. But then there is also we also use solid or we also isolate people as the deepest form of punishment. And if you're alone and you don't have God with you, it's the worst possible place to be. So we use solitary confinement. Put a guy in a cell long enough and he's going to drive himself crazy if it's just by himself, and even as youth. That's how we're punished too punished too right.
Father Wayne Sattler:I mean we're sent up to our room, you know when you're ready, you can come back down and unless you have a little contemplative soul that they're going to say great, I get to go up to my room and just be alone with god.
Jack:Yes, yes you know, because you know you think of solitude. But we're people. People, we're relational, we're created relational. The Trinity is relational.
Jack:So John Paul speaks about this, and I see this coming out of your book, father, that when I'm in solitude, you know these young people are realizing something that we're different, right, than the rest of creation. We're created with reason and free will, right, we're seeking the truth. That's what these young people are seeking. Like. What is the truth? Something's wrong here.
Jack:So instead of feeling lonely at that point, father, I want to talk to them and through your book and through the work that we're doing here is just trying to make this connection so that they open their hearts, like you said, to the possibility, right, that God will speak to them, you know, and he's not a vending machine. So we have to be careful here. We don't put in a prayer and out comes God into our hearts, but he will touch you. And the last thing I'll just say, father, is our great desire you mentioned this our desire of our hearts. Like St Augustine would say, you know, this desire is for something more, and that something more is this.
Jack:So the solitude, Father. How do we get into the solitude? So, if I'm a young guy listening to you right now and I go, yeah, instead of feeling lonely right now, what should I do? How would I open my heart? Maybe I'm dropping on my knees and I say there's got to be something more. How would I do that, father, if I haven't done that before? How would I open my heart up and invite God in to just to try to open myself up, right To say God, if you're there, speak to me you know, yeah, first of all to realize that this isn't all on our shoulders.
Father Wayne Sattler:You know that I don't have to manifest anything here. God is his own. That's the beauty of this. God really is his own person. I mean he's wanting a relationship with us way more than we are.
Father Wayne Sattler:But it takes two, you know, just like any natural relationship and in the book I kind of go through that I walk a person through a natural relationship. You know that initial attraction to the other, but then you have to get to know their name. You know and you have to talk to, but then you have to get to know their name. You know and you have to talk to them, which is vocal prayer. And then eventually you might write things to them or think about past conversation, which is kind of meditation. But then to really engage the person then, not just with the mind but with the heart.
Father Wayne Sattler:And when we're talking about that with God you already referred to it it's this peace that the world cannot give. And I think one of the places that we first really learn that peace is in the sacrament of reconciliation. So in the sacrament of reconciliation the priest, as part of the formula of absolution, will say may God give you pardon and peace and every single time, if you're aware of it, you leave that confessional with a peace that you did not go in there with.
Father Wayne Sattler:And I'll always ask people yeah, I always ask people that now, when you go back to your pew, I want you to recognize that peace in your heart, because it's real and you didn't fabricate it. It's really Christ. And if you really attune yourself, when you go to Holy Communion in a state of grace, you'll go back to your pew with that same peace, like you might've fought to get to mass, you know, and make time to get to mass, but nobody is lacking of that peace when they leave Mass. If they've received the communion worthily, then it's that same peace that we are simply trying to be quiet and still, for, to become aware of when we're alone. And the beauty of it is that through baptism, see, we're made for this, god made us for this. In baptism we become, like what we say, a new creation and a temple of the Holy Spirit. So the same God, you know, outside of which nothing exists, has chosen to come here.
Father Wayne Sattler:And I share the story you know in the book that when I was trying to discern, maybe living as a Carthusian, and they were walking me through their way of life, and I realized that they're not going to let me leave this cell except when we, you know, go to the chapel together and for this one walk a week. When we go together, because I was like, when can I go to the chapel and pray? When am go outside and go for walks? Though you can't, you stay in your cell and the guy before he left you know, after walking me through the routine that I was going to go in turns around and looks at me and I'll never forget this. He says if you can't find God here, you're not going to find him anywhere, and then he closes the door. Now, that doesn't come immediately, because we have all these distractions and we are kind of encountering him more of as an idea than a person.
Father Wayne Sattler:Now I think that, if we're honest though, we do experience this at very unexpected times, even as little children that could be in a hard situation with your family or your friends or whatever, and you maybe were just laying in bed by yourself and suddenly there was a peace in your heart. Or maybe you're out watching a sunset or a sunrise and all of a sudden there is this peace in your heart. And I love to take children to adoration just for a short time so that they can, in that short time, just experience oh, that's a peaceful place. So it's finally just connecting the truth that Christ is our peace and the deepest sense that I am aware of his presence. It's not like and I talk about this in the book too it's not a piece of everything's okay. That's not the peace we're talking about, because you can still have conflicts going on and struggles going on.
Jack:I just described my brother's wife. Her name was Cindy Father, and this was not an easy situation. And she found that peace that you're talking about, and she wasn't. This was not expected, Father. This was not expected. You're describing exactly that situation.
Father Wayne Sattler:The peace. I mean she finally opened herself to it. You know, because it's always there. You know, even in the most difficult of situations that I find myself, and when I find myself not at peace, I'm like lord. You know there's a beautiful prayer make me an instrument of your peace. You know that where there's hatred, let me bring your. Where there's hatred, let me bring your love. Where there's injury, let me bring your pardon. So, again, it's being aware that this peace is not an idea. So at Mass, when we say the peace of the Lord, be with you and with your spirit, this isn't an exchange of ideas. This is the person we have encountered as the reality. That is our peace.
Jack:Ooh, that's good stuff, Father. I could stay there for another half an hour, but we don't have a half hour, so I'm going to thank you so much for that, and this is in the book, everyone. So we're not going to leave you hanging there. We're going to talk about loving God, because this becomes, this peace, becomes almost an openness, a softening of that hardness of heart, father, into a relationship of love. And what we find through just experience of life, even if you're happily married, say, there's something about your spouse that you say well, man, this isn't exactly what I was looking for.
Jack:I thought Mr Wonderful you mentioned would just fill me up and I'd be filled up. Well, the Mr Wonderful that you were alluding to is God himself. So even it doesn't make your relationship bad. It means that there's got to be something more. It's only when I tie in what you're describing, father, and I'm filled, that I can give that to my wife. It's only when my wife is filled like that that she can receive my love and give it back to me. This is just this relationship, and so we see this all over, no matter what vocation you're in. I see it in priests, father, that I work also with some priests, especially the young priests, and they're struggling too because the culture that they grew up in and things that are happening even in the church and we're at the same situation, father that so many of the priests are the same as the lay people. We haven't sat in this and received this peace and then came into this next part of your book, which is actually a love relationship with God, isn't it, father?
Father Wayne Sattler:Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot oftentimes we kind of look at God as the giver of gifts, which he is, but sometimes that can blind us to encountering him as the gift, and that's way better. You know too that the best marriages are where you have two people who are very. I like to use the image of like ships.
Father Wayne Sattler:You know that, a well anchored ship, because sometimes people will say, well, my spouse is my anchor. I'm like no, your spouse is not your anchor, your spouse is a sinner who's going to get whipped around in storms. And you can hope that when they are that you a well-anchored ship, that they're tied on to in the midst of their storms. And then the best you know, so a ship. A guy that worked with ship told me that we always anchor down, you know, at night, but we never know if we're well anchored until a storm comes in. And then, if we're not well anch, then we can tie on to another ship until we get our anchor set. He said but the best scenario is where you have two, three well anchored ships tied on to each other.
Jack:Then bring on the storm, but the my yoke is easy and my burden light. I mean, this is the yoke right that we have to get yoked to Christ, anything else Father is going to go away. It just is, and I think what you're describing is so powerful because it's really unfair to your spouse when they have to become the anchor and stay the anchor, because no person can bear that weight over time, can they?
Father Wayne Sattler:No, no, there's a movie that I think you're probably familiar with and I always use this in pre-marriage that it's jerry mcguire, you know and there's a really famous line from that, like you had me from, hello is the big one right, oh yeah but, there's that very sappy line right before that, where he comes back from this big event and realizes how lacking it was without her and he says you complete me and'm like.
Father Wayne Sattler:That's the worst line you could have ever said, because no human being can complete you. They're a complete sinner. But it sounds nice. It sounds nice, but we need to be completed by God, and then I can bring that to my spouse, which is beautiful to be that instrument to them.
Jack:I remember St Catherine of Siena in their dialogues. And God says to St Catherine you can never really love me the way I love you, because I loved you first and I already gave you this love, right, so I'm being loved and really, when I'm loving God back, I'm returning what he's, the gift that he's already given, which is life itself, even right. And he said but but I gave you your neighbor and you can love them like I love you. I can go to my neighbor, I can go to my spouse, I can go to my friend, I can go to another person and I can love them even when they don't love me back. See, this is a different thing. But in order to do that and this is Mother Teresa too, right, sisters, sit around. Yes, you have to spend time with God, because otherwise we cannot give what we don't have to all these poor people. We'll be like social workers, burnt out social workers over time. Father, so important, it's so beautiful, right, you couldn't make up the beauty of what we're talking about here, father.
Father Wayne Sattler:No, nor the truth of it either.
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah, I mean, this is it's truth, that we're speaking, that and I think when you were mentioning some of the younger priests too, that they can never lose sight that their prayer life is the most important thing of their ministry. In the book I talk about Pope Benedict, who says the first task of a priest is to be a believer. So we need to. The deeper our relationship is with God, the more we'll be able to be an instrument of that love to others. And, as you know, there's the old saying that if you lose sight of Christ then there is no peace. You know that without Christ there is no lasting peace.
Jack:He said this is the problem with our technology. I think today, you know it's not that the technology is so bad. Technology is technology. It can be good or bad, you know, depending on how you use it, but it's a distraction too often for too many people, huh, and it keeps you on the surface. You know, I thought about this boat, this boat, you said, bobbing around, you know, with the spirit of the age, getting blown around all over. And in order for that boat to go down, we do this exercise with young people, with teens, father, where they're anxious, they're nervous, they even talk about suicide among their peers and we ask them to sink down with us below.
Jack:I'm a diver, a scuba diver, and I say I'm on this boat and get ready to dive off right on a reef and it's wavy and it's bumpy, I can hardly get. I got the fins on, I got the tanks on, you're trying to get to the edge of the boat Sometimes it's difficult in the ocean, bobbing around but boom, you hit that water and you're down 10 feet, 20 feet, 30 feet, and you go, ooh, wow. I look up and the surface is bobbing around, but here, ooh, it's calm and the awe and wonder of everything you see around you. It's much different than on the surface, and this is, I think, what you're getting at, father. You know in a different way, right? I mean, I'm using an analogy, of course, but, but I mean to sink down below, below all these waves and all this noise. This is a temporal space, but what you're talking to is being anchored in infinite, right in the, in an infinite person.
Father Wayne Sattler:You know it's, it's powerful I think you know it's what we saw so beautifully in the life of saint john paul ii to be honest with you that I can't imagine. You know the turbulences that he faced every day, but he was so deeply anchored you would have never guessed it you know, yes, yes there is also the statement that he would periodically, throughout the day.
Father Wayne Sattler:Nobody could find him, you know, because he would be in the statement that he would periodically, throughout the day. Nobody could find him, you know, because he would be in the chapel prostrate. Yes, he would, yeah.
Jack:So describe, for people that might be some young people listening that say you know this chapel, that he comes into right and it usually was the Eucharist is exposed in adoration and he would lay there, wouldn't he? They said he would lay there sometimes and they're trying to. You know he's got an appointment. We got to get him up and you were afraid to touch him. He was in a different place, father, did you? When you were in your daily life too, but when you were experiencing that as a hermit, I mean that's got to be deep, father. That's got to be deep. I mean you have to get into these places where I mean can you give us a little taste of an experience that you yourself have felt, father, or some experience that you can relate to some of our young people Not that they're going to look for this, right. I mean this takes time and I'm going to just throw this right. I mean this takes time and I'm going to just throw this out there because, like you said, it doesn't just happen overnight. This is a relationship. I just met you. I can't know everything about you right now, but over time and you had time, father what's that like, father, when you get into this.
Jack:John Paul prostrate, I'm sure you've experienced very similar, if not the same, things, father, in your own way. Right, god? You were unique, unrepeatable. God woos you different than he woos somebody else. This is the beauty of the sacred romance. But still he wooed you, didn't he, father?
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah, the beauty is being now drawn back out of the hermitage. And I remember giving a retreat to our region's bishops and we were talking about this type of prayer and they said you know, had you been a hermit it would have been harder to hear you on this, but at the time I was in a very large parish as the pastor there and they knew what that life was like. And so this deep life with Christ is not something that God is just dangling out there for the hermits and it doesn't necessitate long periods of time. It's God.
Father Wayne Sattler:I remember working with a directee. We were friends and we finished our time a little bit early and they went on to talk about other matters and I said there's a little time left, why don't you go to the chapel and pray for a little while? And they said Father, by the time I get there I'm just going to have like 10 minutes. I said don't underestimate what God can do in 10 minutes. It is God. And to this day they are like the witness to others of what God can do in 10 minutes in prayer.
Father Wayne Sattler:Isn't that beautiful.
Jack:Father, you say in the book that you were on retreat one time for like you had three days or something, but you came back after the first day because you missed the parish. Now you were filled and now God sent. You said now go out and reach those people.
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah, it was a little different than that, okay, because I wanted to stay. I had like three days scheduled off and there was a lot of stuff happening at the parish.
Father Wayne Sattler:But we come to discover this peace that only he can give right in prayer, and it doesn't take long to know whether it's there or not okay, yeah and when I got out to the hermitage I had my first day, was there and it was beautiful, you know, the lord was just refreshing my soul in a way that I needed it for what he was asking me to do in the parish. But then he was like, okay, now there's a lot, you need to get back to the parish. And I'm like, no, I've got three days left.
Jack:I'm sticking out here.
Father Wayne Sattler:It was a little less beautiful than you were just portrayed it to be. It wasn't like, oh, I'm filled and now I'm going to go back. I'm like no, I'm staying here and say the lord said like, well, no, I got to go to the parish. So he went and literally it was in a matter of hours. And I'm like how much grace god gave me to live six years as a hermit because I need to go back, like now, because that this isn't where he wants me right now. He wants me there.
Father Wayne Sattler:And it's that awareness of his peace, or that lack of peace, so that when we separate ourselves from the will of God, like from sin, that's when that peace is compromised and that's when we don't have that peace within. And so confession can really help us to start to understand that rhythm of receiving God's peace in a real, tangible way and then compromising that peace by things that are not of His will. And then, when we come to prayer, I can compromise that time by just seeking things from God. Compromise that time by just seeking things from God, but when I'm there seeking Him, something else can be received, which is His peace.
Jack:That's beautiful, father, as we start we've only got a few minutes left I want to get into that last part, which is taking. You already are alluding to this when God calls you back into this parish right and says serving God. And I remember John Paul saying something so beautiful to young people. He always challenged young people. He wasn't afraid. Was he a father to challenge young people? And he goes something like this right, young people, you know that your life has meaning to the extent that it's given away as a gift to others.
Jack:And this is where we find this. You know kind of. You know where you know the rubber meets the road when you go out and you reach out to other people. It's the most you know. Talk about. You know how, being filled, father, when I'm walking into the story and I'm going out to serve others, this is almost like the finish of the cycle, right? You're setting yourself up in solitude, you're learning to love God, and then we have to love our neighbor. It's not brain surgery, it's the two great commandments, in essence, isn't it, father? Okay, can we kind of wind down? Talk to us just for a few minutes about when you were thinking about serving God, what that last part of the book meant to you, father.
Father Wayne Sattler:Yeah, I think, as you mentioned John Paul II talking to our youth, our youth have an instinct of what is great and of what is. When I taught high school, they had a real way of knowing if I was genuine or fake.
Father Wayne Sattler:And they were searching for something real. And that's what John Paul II would always challenge them, because he knew that's what they were looking for. He knew that nobody can sense a fake, like a teen, you know, or a young adolescent or a young youth, and they can sniff it out like that, I think you know, because there's so much fakeness around them. You know too and that's the beauty of when we encounter God, you know it's like, and that's why he wasn't afraid of challenging them, because you will not be disappointed. You know God will not let you down. He, he is the most authentic through and through person you're ever, ever going to encounter. And then that's where the third part of the book comes in, that sometimes, when we think of serving God, we think of the things that we're doing. And serving God really is about first knowing God and then loving God, because then we're going to just be where he wants to be. And that's where Jesus says that where I am, my servant will be, because we've been awakened that there is no better place to be. You know that only here is where I'm going to have peace, only here is where I'm going to have fulfillment.
Father Wayne Sattler:St Catherine, st Teresa of Avila will say outside of that house there is neither peace nor security. That's a big other word for youth, and that's the truth that we encounter over and over again. With anybody, even your spouse, you're not going to have 100% peace and security with them because they're sinners and they're going to hurt you. They'll come back and you'll work it through, but only in God do we have that peace and that security that we're longing for. And when you encounter that, there's no close seconds. I tell people that when you encounter God for who he is, there will not be a close second in your life of love.
Father Wayne Sattler:No and it's so practical Father.
Jack:I was going to end, but I just want to tell you a quick story. So we were really struggling on our marriage many years ago, and this is a long time ago.
Father Wayne Sattler:And.
Jack:I had come back into the church. I'm one of my brothers' deathbed, actually. I came back into the church and we're struggling with this marriage and I felt this peace coming back into the church, right. And then when I started to encounter my wife, we wanted to see how little we were. You know, we, we want to see how little we can give one another, right I mean just I'll give you less.
Jack:No, I'll give you less. And then I received this mercy, this grace, this, this, this, this. I felt this love, and so I would walk in and and and, and, and I wouldn't get caught up in the anger, father, and I start to see my wife as a little girl for some reason, and and and and of God just. He loved her as a little girl and I had asked her to marry me and she had said yes. And now I was a man just like another man, just arguing and demeaning her, and I go no more. God just forgave me, he just. And now I have to do the same, and you can't do that without grace, father. And so I took that grace and I would just receive it and then slowly, slowly, slowly, right, you just stop being mean to people, stop arguing all the time, start to see them as God sees them. And it's possible, father. But you're right, you have to know God first. You have to love God first. You have to be filled with grace. You have to love god first, you have to be filled with grace. And then he walks with you into the story and I would pray before I met, before I would come home and I'd say, god, give me the grace to, to see my wife the way you see her. Right, to give me a little piece of that at least. Right, and he did, father, it's the most practical thing I you know.
Jack:What you're talking about here is practical life, practical love, the way we're created to be right. God is love, huh, father, and he's also the truth, as you made very clear. There, isn't it, father? Any last words as we go here. It's such an honor to be with you. You know your heart comes out right through this technology, which I said could be good. Right, I want to remind everybody of the book again. This is Remain in Me and I in you, relating to God as a person, not as an idea. Father, what a gift you are, what a gift this book is. So thank you very much for that.
Father Wayne Sattler:You're welcome. It's been a pleasure to be with you here with it. Just an encouragement Nobody gets it right all the time. Nobody is perfect in this path. That's why we're blessed to have a relationship with God, because he is truly unconditional in His love for us and, as I identify in the book that when we encounter Him for who he is, he is love and he is the savior. So to encounter him means that he's always going to come where I need to be loved and where I need to be saved. And that's all you need to do, you don't. You just need to give him your weakness. That's all God is looking for, and you can have a deep relationship with him, because then he can be himself in you.
Jack:Oh, father, give us a blessing on the way out, will you please. We all need that. We really do.
Father Wayne Sattler:Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time. We thank you for the bright, living example of St John Paul II, whose passing to you we celebrate today. St John Paul II, whose passing to you we celebrate today, we pray that we, like him, might be awakened to your presence within longing to love us and longing to save us. We pray that we would delve deeply into this relationship that will never end, and learn the beauty of true and authentic prayer, and I ask your blessing upon all those who are listening, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Jack:Amen, amen. Thank you, father. Thank you so much, and for everybody listening, don't forget to support our sponsor for today's show, aimutilitygroupcom. To support our sponsor for today's show, aimutilitygroupcom, that's aimenergygroupcom A-I-M. Energygroupcom. See the show notes for my friend TJ Lally's direct number and for more information. Thanks everyone.