Become Who You Are
What’s the meaning and purpose of my life? What is my true identity? Why were we created male and female? How do I find happiness, joy and peace? How do I find love that lasts, forever? These are the timeless questions of the human heart. Join Jack Rigert and his guests for lively insights, reading the signs of our times through the lens of Catholic Teaching and the insights of Saint John Paul ll to guide us.
Saint Catherine of Siena said "Become who you are and you would set the world on fire".
Become Who You Are
#570 Exploring Courage with Father Brian Gannon: Dedicated to our brothers and sisters who experience same-sex attraction and those who love them.
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As the Executive Director of "Courage International" Father Gannon illuminates how Courage has grown to over 280 chapters worldwide, providing a compassionate sanctuary for individuals navigating same-sex attraction while aligning with Catholic teachings. This conversation promises to shed light on how Courage fosters a deeper understanding and peace through faith, charity, and the timeless wisdom of the Church.
“The Contraceptive Mentality”: Ground Zero in Spiritual Warfare (Pt 1) By Jack Rigert
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I am very excited and grateful to be with Father Brian Gannon. He's a priest in the Diocese of Bridgeport, ordained on May 24, 1997. Born in Connecticut, he's one of seven children. Born in Connecticut, he's one of seven children. Fr Gannon received an STL and an STD in Moral Theology from the Academy Alfonsina in Rome. Spent time teaching in various Catholic schools in Connecticut and New York. He's a professor of Moral Theology at the Major Seminary in New York and pastor of St Teresa in Trumbull, connecticut.
Speaker 1:Fr Gannon previously assisted Father Cech with the local Courage chapter in Bridgeport and also gave the Nihil Obstat, which is an official approval. We can talk about that if you want to tell people what that is. Sometimes they don't know, but anyways, it just shows that the book, the 40th anniversary edition of the Courage Handbook, was released in 2020. Father gave the Nile Obstat to that, which just says that it's nothing in conflict with our faith and morals, basically, and he remains pastor. It was just before we came on, father, just saying I don't know how you do it. You remain pastor of St Teresa while taking on the responsibility of the executive director of Courage International. Father, there's a lot there and I know we could talk about a lot more about your background. It's amazing, so welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1:Hey thank you, jack, it's great to be here with you.
Speaker 1:Well, there's no more confusion out there, Father. You know, with the John Paul II Renewal Center we're presenting in churches all over the country, really on theology of the body and other things Identity, meaning and purpose, why we're created male and female. There's no more confusion out there, especially to our young people coming into the church, on gender, same-sex, attraction, things like that. So, Father, tell us a little bit about courage, Encourage for people that don't know and the kind of work that you do there.
Speaker 2:Okay, absolutely so. Courage itself, the Courage International its history goes back to 1980, and maybe even a little bit before that. But officially the Archbishop at that time of New York City, cardinal Terence Cook, actually spoke with the well-known Father Benedict Grishel and asked I really want to do a pastoral outreach to those who have same-sex attraction, because I think a lot of this is coming especially in the forefront of the public mindset, especially in the 60s and 70s with the so-called sexual revolution and the libertinism that really followed from that in the media culture. And so Benedict Creschel recommended Father John Harvey and you know, talk about the Holy Spirit is in charge and Father John Harvey was the right man at the right time. And so they started putting things together, a program, and so in 1980, they found it in one church in Manhattan, the very first Courage chapter. Then they moved it to another church shortly thereafter, but then it just simply began to grow and grow and then moved to Toronto.
Speaker 2:That was the first international Courage chapter and then moved to actually to the point today where we're at over 280 chapters worldwide. So Father Harvey, himself a very holy man trying to push his cause for sainthood, and I think rightfully so, a man who was staunchly committed to all that the Catholic Church teaches, which, ironically, you know, the secular world thinks well, it's rough. No, it's actually. It's always rooted in charity and, by all accounts, of everybody who knew Father Harvey, one of the most loving and most compassionate people he could meet and at the same time, a very, very dedicated church man, and so was Father Groeschel and Cardinal Cook.
Speaker 1:I mean, these are wonderful, great, compassionate lovers of people. You know, weren't they Father?
Speaker 2:You are. You're exactly right. There was nothing more they wanted than people to be at peace within their hearts and to know the great compassion of our, the mercy of our Lord and his redemptive work, because that's again, that's where our true peace of heart lies.
Speaker 1:So courage came out of Father Harvey's work already with people that had same-sex attraction, were in homosexual lifestyles, and you know they would come to him, he would meet them and he's looking for you know some place to plug them in, isn't it? That's really where courage came from. So give us a little bit. If I'm you know, if I've got some same-sex attraction, or I know somebody that is, you know what is courage? What does it actually do, father? What can it do for people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So courage is set up. The central office is, of course, here in Connecticut, which is kind of like the guiding office, and then so at the level that-.
Speaker 1:Now, Father, let me just ask you is that office there because you're there, or is it always there?
Speaker 2:No, it was always—actually it was in New York and then it was moved to Norwalk, connecticut, I think a few years—I can't remember the exact year and then it was eventually about 2016 or 17,. It was moved up to Trumbull, maybe 2018. Okay, and so it's in its third kind of like home, so to speak. Yeah, and with approval of the local bishop. So it operates under the Bishop Caggiano, who's the Bishop. Bridgeport is actually also the chairman of the Episcopal Board for Courage, which seats about seven bishops who are kind of like the overseers of the executive board, and then, of course, the staff, and then the Courage chapters worldwide, and then of course the staff and then the Courage chapters worldwide.
Speaker 2:So at the local level, maybe one way to begin this is the beautiful line of St Augustine our hearts are restless, o Lord, until they rest in thee. And what people discover all over their lives, no matter what challenges, sinful inclinations, weaknesses that we may face, the restlessness, I just want to be at peace with myself. I just want to have happiness in life. And so, especially with those who experience same-sex attraction, they realize that there's something more, there's something greater, and where do I go? And so courage is.
Speaker 2:The chapter is a way in which we surrender to our Lord and Savior, jesus Christ, with we always. The road to spiritual union with Christ always begins with humility. Right, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. So we recognize all right, the world is wrong about this. Jesus Christ is right about this. It's going to be challenging, it's going to be difficult, but nevertheless I know that this is where the answer to to the healing that I seek and to the love that I seek is in the cross and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, our Lord, who gives us the greatest hope of all.
Speaker 2:So at the Courage. So I recommend to people right off the bat. You know, go to our Courage International website and in therein I can't remember the exact, but you would go to look for the local Courage chapter. You could fill in like your zip code, your address, and then that will point you to a proper person to contact, and then you would contact an individual and then that individual would reach out and then eventually you could join the local Courage chapter and so- Will those fathers usually fall underneath the diocese or not necessarily?
Speaker 1:In other words, will the diocese appoint someone normally to start a chapter to be with that, or can they just? Are there other avenues for that outside of-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So they can always contact the office directly. But if we establish a formal chapter in a diocese, we would only do that with the permission of the local bishop. We would never do that without his permission. And so then the Courage members are the clergy. So the clergy, so it's either a priest or a deacon who is the moderator for the group, and so they're the ones who are playing spiritual director and also kind of the fatherly person in the group, obviously as a Catholic.
Speaker 1:So this is, if I'm going to come into this, father. It's basically a community or a group of people, Is it? We're going to be talking through this? Is it kind of like an AA type of a situation, or you know? I mean, there's all kinds of situations like that. I know Father Harvey mentioned the 12 steps that at some point I was reading about him. So is it kind of, you know, I'm going to come into a group setting, I'm going to meet other people. Is that what this is like?
Speaker 2:Exactly so. You meet other men who have experienced same-sex attraction. They may be from different parts of the cultural sphere, the social sphere, the finding. You know men of different. It's just like walking into a regular Catholic church you know everybody in the pew is very different, but nevertheless they in this case everybody has experienced that same-sex attraction.
Speaker 2:So in a group meeting, what we would do is the very first thing you do is read off the five goals of courage, and then each man will share his challenges and his joys over the last week or the last several weeks since they last met. And so there's also spiritual direction involved. There's a particular theme for that, and then guys can offer suggestion to other guys as well from their own personal experience, as well as the priest moderator offering his counsel as well, as well as the priest moderator offering his counsel as well, and of course there's always availability for confession. But then so a key part of this is which goes with our Catholic faith is the teaching of the church, but also the fellowship and spiritual friendship. Spiritual friendship is so essential to this whole thing and the whole nature of. I always think.
Speaker 2:Actually Cicero was neither Jewish nor Christian, but when he wrote a wonderful book on friendship. He said you know, friendship has been granted by nature as an aid to virtue, not as a companion to vice, and so the pagan philosophers recognize this, you know, in Greece and in Rome. And so this is coupled with God's grace, with the wisdom of the church, we achieve authentic friendship, authentic love and affection for one another, which is not fundamentally expressed sexually, but it's fundamentally expressed through subordination to our Lord and to his love and compassion.
Speaker 1:Now you mentioned men, Are there also courage chapters for women?
Speaker 2:There are courage chapters for women as well. So I guess, yeah, you would reach out. And then I think the best thing to do if people are just really not sure, call Courage Internationally go to the website and just call them if you're just not sure about contacting or unsure about even using the website, and someone will pick up the phone who will be very, very helpful. The whole staff wants nothing more than to help people reach their goal.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, and then just to kind of finish that picture. So we have Encourage Is this still called Encourage? That helps families, parents, families, friends.
Speaker 2:Yes. So the Encourage, of course, is for parents, family members who have a family member who has same-sex attraction, and that family member who has the same-sex attraction may not actually be a member of Courage and may be actually someone who is not interested, but obviously the parents suffer and so they go to a group called Courage where they have that fellowship with other parents who are struggling and they also have a priest moderator as well or a deacon moderator who really gives them the support and the compassion of Holy Mother Church as well.
Speaker 1:So that's beautiful. Well, here's where a lot of the confusion, I think, father, lies, is when I'm going out to speak to various parishes and things. Two levels one with the actual priests themselves. They're very compassionate, and the older ones sometimes even more so. You know, they went through the sexual rub. Look, we're products in a way of our culture, aren't we? And you know, a lot of it depends on how we were formed, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:But the erroneous part of it and I try to get this over to them is that, yes, you know, jesus always sat down with everybody, you know everybody for dinner, right, come on in, tax collectors, prostitutes. If you've got same-sex, it doesn't matter, right? We're all beautiful human beings, brothers and sisters. But he would always heal you physically if you needed to, and then he would say go out and sin no more. He was going to free you. We want to be free, father, don't we? We want to be free.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes, in our want to be empathetic, to be compassionate, we forget about that second part, that people want to transcend their weaknesses, and I'm not talking about just same-sex, I mean all of our weaknesses. We all have something. Unfortunately, with sex, it seems. Our culture, father, with sex, is the only one we don't want to heal. We're just normal, everything's normal, right? So if I drink too much, or I gamble too much, or I'm infidel, you know I'm cheating on my wife, well, there's a sin. But when it comes to just plain sex, especially with these gender ideologies, now, everything's perfectly normal.
Speaker 1:And this is very important, father, this conversation, because we work with schools, we work with the national sex ed standards that are being pushed in states like we're in Illinois. I call it the belly of the beast, father, and so this confusion really is there. So Christ always came in to free us, so maybe you could talk a little bit about that. Right, we want to invite everybody in to the church, but Jesus loves us too much to leave us in our weaknesses and our sins, doesn't he?
Speaker 2:That's exactly right, because the constant message of the gospel we go back to scripture is repent. The kingdom of God is at hand. St John the Baptist, our Lord, constantly repent. And as you said, our Lord's concluding words to the woman caught in adultery he rescues her from being stoned to death, but he says to her go and sin no more, and of course we're going to fall into sin. That's why God gives us not one sacrament but seven sacraments, because he's very patient with us and he knows that we need the sacraments, especially of healing and confession, and the sacrament of nourishment in the Most Holy Eucharist. And so, but nevertheless and John Paul II so beautifully has written extensively on freedom right.
Speaker 1:And what true freedom is.
Speaker 2:What is freedom meant, from the gospel, from Egypt, and that God leads them through the desert, which is going to be a formative, challenging but ultimately an empowering with God's grace, of course, an empowering experience. But the Israelites get angry and they said why don't we just go back to Egypt? At least we were fed there. But you were enslaved there, you were treated beneath your dignity there, and that's a metaphor for sin. Let me go back to my sin, because it was just easier. It was just easier.
Speaker 2:And then I guess maybe a kind of an atomic bomb that went off in our culture back in the 1960s was the whole issue of birth control. John, excuse me, paul VI, humanae Vitae, and he, just what all Paul VI did was simply reassert what the church had taught for fundamentally for 2,000 years. But also, what's critical about it is is that what are the goals of human sexuality? And this is another thing. That was so why the election of John Paul II was so timely, because he wrote so articulately about this relationship between man and woman, genesis and just the beauty of conjugal love, and so the unitive and the procreative, and so the goal that's clearly stated out in Holy Scripture, in Genesis. So if you deviate from those goals.
Speaker 2:If you redefine what human sexuality is all about and ultimately it's about pleasure then now you've just broken down, you've attacked the family, you've attacked matrimony and even, actually, as we see, gender. And so then, therefore, sexuality is simply a social construct. And so then, therefore, if I drink a glass of water in this circumstances or that circumstance, if I engage in sexual relations, it's no different, but it's hardwired into our soul. And so the only way that human sexuality can be fully expressed is in holy matrimony, sanctified by God, between a husband and a wife, to fulfill the goals.
Speaker 2:Anything outside of that, it's really like fire. Fire is an extraordinary useful element in the world. It can warm us and it can cook for us, but if the fire gets out of control, it will destroy us, and the same thing goes for the remarkable power of human sexuality. Thomas Aquinas would say that the sexual drive in the human person is the second most powerful drive, after the will to survive. And so then, therefore, we're dealing with something of enormous power, enormous power, but it's like driving. It's like driving a stagecoach with 20 horses. You've got to have them under control or you're going right over the cliff and off the road.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such a good point. You know, I just wrote an article, father. I'll send it to you. In fact, I'll put a link in the show notes here for the Catholic Exchange. And there was a dialogue going on on X you know that used to be Twitter and it was about Nancy Mace and pushing back on the trans bathrooms in the Senate and blah, blah, blah. And then somebody said you know, well, you know, we got away from marriage and so this got confused. And then now we have the trans issues and I said well, you can go back one more step if you really want to get to the baseline. And it's really the contraceptive mentality that you just brought up.
Speaker 1:Once we got away from babies and bonding and that beautiful sacrament of marriage, then all hell basically broke loose and the beauty of that we can condemn. There's plenty of passages, right, father, in Scripture that condemn homosexuality. But much more productive and Father Harvey was on to that is what you brought up. You know, the model of this is love, this authentic Trinitarian love, and when you start to think about marriage and the family as being this little reflection of Trinitarian love in the world, where again, just the two, my wife and I can become one and become three. There's like a love bomb explosion that goes off, right Called a zygote, a baby, and there's literally, father, a moment in time where the two, my wife and I, become one, become three. There's three persons in one, a little creative, sacramental reflection of Trinitarian love in the world. That's why it's so powerful, father, if I take that Thomas Aquinas is right, as a man, I know this Once you release lust and selfishness, especially our sexuality, ooh man, the genie got out of the bottle, father, didn't it?
Speaker 2:It really did. I mean, it goes back to the original sin and, of course, what we know is was what we call perfect integrity. So the passions and the instincts of the physical body were completely in union and harmony and governed by the instincts of the soul, which is self-giving love to god after the original sin, the great divide and the war between the flesh and the spirit. And so then, therefore, that's what we have to put, you know, that's where grace, but also the exercise of human virtue, is critical, where we're getting back to that mastery over the passions. Because, as you said, you know the world is going to encourage just sexual libertinism, and so, but what we? You've got to be really. I don't want to say academic about this, but we've got to be very thoughtful and reflective about this, actually, I should say metaphysical about it.
Speaker 2:What is the fundamental purpose of human sexuality? Because it's such an extraordinary power. It destroys people, right? Adultery destroys Children born out of wedlock, really hurts the poor child who's born out of wedlock. And, of course, the rampant social diseases as well. All of these are the products of the so-called sexual revolution, and it shows the enormous kind of I always like to half joke about. God is the most practical of them all. If we just listen to him and follow him, we wouldn't have half the problems in the world that we have today And-.
Speaker 1:And you know, father, I think sometimes we forget that God's calling us and inviting us into a love story, you know, an eternal love story. And the other thing I think we forget is that Jesus didn't come to manage our sins. You know, going back to our earlier dialogue, he came with power right, this power of love to pour himself out on the cross. And I remember one time, father, you know, struggling early on in my own marriage and I remember kneeling down at the foot of the cross, you know, and our intimacy was not good. You know, we're arguing all the time and as a man, I'm thinking man. You know, I need to be fulfilled. You know, I got all this stuff going on in my body and I'm mad because my wife's pushing me away.
Speaker 1:And I start to pray and I look up in this chapel, father, and had a crucifix with Jesus, of course, on it, and then our Blessed Mother and St Joseph and I'm complaining about sex to three virgins. And I look up at St Joseph and I realized that he never was able to, you know, was never given the chance to consummate this right. I mean, our Blessed Mother is impregnated with Jesus himself and yet I look up at him and I go ooh, how did you do that right? How did you do that? Honest to goodness, father? I got up, and the reason I'm telling you this is I got up and within a day or two, I realized that I opened my heart to St Joseph, of course, to Jesus, to his immaculate heart of his mother, mary there.
Speaker 1:And that selfishness, that twisting of that lust was untwisted and I opened that to Jesus. And this is what we're calling these people with same you know all our brothers and sisters with same-sex attractions. Right To come into the church. Open your heart up, don't push it down. Right, we're not telling you to stop these desires, to let Jesus untwist them. He did it for me. He did it. I have a brother that was sexually abused, father, got into a homosexual lifestyle, brought me back into the church. I won't go into it now. On his deathbed he had come back into the church, he had received the sacraments, he had been free and he brought me back into the Catholic church and the rest of my brothers. So there's a real power there, father. I know I went on a little bit, but that's the power and the beauty of what we're inviting people into, isn't it?
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. Because you're exactly right. There's so many beautiful things in what you said there. Because the center, the most loving act we say in all of human history is our Lord on the cross. There's nothing more loving, there's nothing more compassionate, more merciful and nothing more striking and nothing more exemplary. So all of my love then somehow has to be. If it's going to be truly authentic, love has to be connected to the cross. So I have to be willing to surrender all of myself to Almighty God, and that agape right. And so the expression of sexual you know, sexuality is meant to be an expression of love. But first you've got to get the definition of love and love. That's why the commandments, the first three commandments, are relationship with God. The next seven are relationship with our neighbor. So we've got to get our loving relationship with God in order and then we're able to love our neighbor much more fully and much more authentically. And that's it Because in the end, our religion is a faith of excuse me, yeah, it's a faith of a great.
Speaker 2:The theological virtue of hope, it's about being freed from the unbridled freedom and do whatever you want leads to slavery. But the sacrifice and putting myself in that ordered love towards God. As Augustine defines, virtue is ordered love, and God is order right. He places things in order, but only because it benefits us, and he's actually explaining to us what our supernatural DNA is, where we're really going to find true happiness. And the reflection on St Joseph is so apropos because here's a man who, right, enters into marriage but will never experience conjugal intimacy, but at the same time is the greatest of all human fathers who ever lived, and to say the very very least. And so his surrender to God and then his absolute, really mutual surrender to the Blessed Mother, their surrender to each other but for their love of Christ first, brings about the most extraordinary holiness of any family that ever walked the face of the earth. So it becomes a model for all men. If I get my, it's not about repressing sexual urges, it's because that's like for the celebrated priesthood, for the consecrated religious sister, it's rechanneling it towards an expression of love, the natural maternalism I always like to have.
Speaker 2:Joke about Mother Teresa. Would anybody really dare to say Mother Teresa was not a real mother? You know, she was an extraordinary mother, and that goes for all the saints and so, and that's what we're striving to, be true fathers and true mothers, even though we live a celibate life. But it's rechanneling that paternalism the way our Lord will channel it. I kind of joke with my. I remember teaching kids 20 years ago. I said if you never eat, what's going to happen? They say, say you'll die. I said, yeah, if you never drink any water, you'll die. If you stop sleeping, what will happen? You'll die. I said if you never ever have sex again, I promise you you will not die and um yeah but that's not to understate the power of sexuality and sexual drive.
Speaker 2:It's extraordinarily powerful, but but the point is, is that it's not fundamental to survival, but what it is is it's fundamental, but what we want to do is get a reflective hold on it and channel that sexual drive into a healthy direction that is only going to be guided by the wisdom of God, only the wisdom of God.
Speaker 1:Because again, yeah, what we do, father, today as you know, you mentioned identity earlier. What we do today is we slap on these labels because we don't think that that's possible what you just said. And it is possible because I meet people all the time. You know, one of the most beautiful things in the world is when that selfishness, even let's call it lust. John Paul would say the opposite of love is not hate, the opposite of love is lust right, because love is pouring yourself out for the good of another. This is what Jesus does on the cross. The opposite is grasping right, taking for myself. So the opposite of love is grasping. Taking. That beautiful virtue of chastity that we're calling people into is for single people, same-sex attracted people, heterosexual attracted people. That beauty of chastity stops us right.
Speaker 1:And it opens up and says, nope, I have to will the good of another person, you know, and that's what it does. Of course we're called to be to continence, of course, you know, in same-sex attraction, which means just take a pause, come back and see if you can't be, like you said, you know, re-channeled, open that sexual energy up and let Christ untwist it, because you don't want to push it down, father, and I don't want to indulge it. I work with guys that are addicted to pornography. These young guys, by accident, you know that, get drawn into it by accident and they push it down, push it down, then they get hungry, right Starvation diet, and then they indulge, and they push it down and they indulge. And this is the same thing a lot of times with our sexual attractions.
Speaker 1:We know the third way, father, don't we? You know that three-dimensional way that those sexual desires have been put into our heart by design to lead us to our destiny. To open those up. It's the most freeing thing in the world, father. And John Paul would say freedom is always for something, freedom is for something. So what am I choosing, right? I got to choose authentic love don't I?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly right, because freedom, exactly as we just like the Israelites being led to freedom by Moses to Sinai, and that means it's going to be. We're going through a desert experience, there's going to be challenges and you're going to be very hungry at times. Yes, you are this is not easy, father.
Speaker 1:It's not overly complicated, but look at, I went through it myself. You know where you have to. This is a battlefield of the heart, right? John Paul would call this is a tough battle. But I think young people, especially young men and I'm talking too far they want that challenge, they just want to understand it. You know what I mean. I don't mind being a warrior, I just want to know why I'm fighting the battle you know, and we're not always telling them.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing about sexuality, right? It's wired into love. And so I remember the chapter of one very good chastity speaker. In one of his books he wrote lust is boring, and or in one of his books he wrote Lust is Boring, and I thought that was a very effective title.
Speaker 1:I think that was Jason Everett.
Speaker 2:Probably that is Jason Everett, you're exactly right, yeah, 20 years ago I had him come to our high school and he was just a smash hit with the kids, as you can imagine.
Speaker 2:He did an excellent job. And that's the key is to understand that it's actually chastity and self-mastery of our sexual drive. It leads to a wholeness, because actually the root word of integrity is wholeness right, an integer is a whole number, right, and so wholeness. So if you want to be a man or woman of true integrity, you want to master your sexual drive absolutely and then just understanding that the only way it could ever be expressed in a holy, sanctified way is in holy matrimony. And so then, therefore, by doing that, I'm actually going to accomplish a wholeness within myself. It's not repression, but actually it's a mastery that's going to give me a real sense of peace, because the ironic thing is that we're actually taught in so many other avenues to master our passions.
Speaker 2:I feel like somebody bumps into me in the street and I want to punch him, or somebody puts me off and I want to chase after him in my car and hold on the horn. Our passions are wild, but they're like wild horses, but we want to as one. They're like giant lions, right, and you have the lion tamer, and if the lions are not tamed, they'll rip the lion tamer. He had no chance. But if he tames them he can put them to great power for himself. And that's the same thing with the sexual drive.
Speaker 1:And we're seeing, father, it doesn't take a lot of experience to look around the world today and see what happens when that chaos of not understanding this has come around. Look at these gender ideologies. I mean, they're off the charts now. We're getting so crazy, but maybe just in a couple of minutes to talk about identity, because sometimes we're too accepting. In fact, we're taught as kids now, in elementary schools, to accept the label. I'm an LGBTQIA++, you know. And then the problem with that, father, isn't it that I start to live out the label? That's a danger, but that's not my identity. And so this is what you know, what courage does so? Well, what is my identity, father? It's not a label, is it? No, it's not a label, right, the most fundamental identity it's like what is my identity, father?
Speaker 2:It's not a label, is it? No, it's not a label, right? The most fundamental identity it's like what is the definition of a human person? It's so beautiful and so easy.
Speaker 2:The first chapter in Genesis, the first chapter in the whole Bible, gives that Male and female. He made them in the image and likeness. So my definition is made in the image and likeness of God. What gives you a greater, higher value? What gives you a greater self-worth? What should give you the most incredible self-esteem? I'm made in the image and likeness of God and, though the fact that I'm a sinner and God knows all my sins, he still died for me and rose from the dead.
Speaker 2:And that's what I'll tell parents. You know, in general situations like, the greatest thing you want for your kids is to have that relationship with Christ, but to build their self-esteem on Christ. It'll make them stronger against their peers, stronger against the bombardment of the absolute lies and deceptions of this world, especially when they go off into college and they're going to be bombarded with all sorts of craziness. But to know who I am in terms of my relationship with God, that's the greatest anchor that we could ever have. And so then, no, I was just going to say what's so interesting, especially in the past 50, 60 years, is that the so-called sexual revolution, step by step, is just you start to see the demonic behind it. Right, because it's a rebellion against marriage, it's a rebellion against family, it's a rebellion against the whole purpose of human intimacy, and then it even becomes a rebellion, as we see in recent years, against sexual gender, against male and female. It's so remarkable how it's all like a big missile aimed at Genesis.
Speaker 1:And so you see, this, father, I want you to talk about that a little bit more, because this is very powerful.
Speaker 1:You know, Sister Lucia wrote a letter to who became Cardinal Cofara you know, when he was working with John Paul II and he was tasked with putting up the Pontifical Institute for Marriage and Family in Rome, right To push you know, not to push but to teach this theology of what would become theology of the body, talking about everything we're talking about here but he felt the demonic. Basically he really felt the evil oppressing this institution as he was trying to put it together. From inside the church, where the smoke of Satan was inside the church too, we know that, but also from the outside right. So we know all this. Unfortunately, the church, just like our government institutions and all the other institutions, are made up of men and women, right, made up of people that need to be redeemed. We know that. But at the end of the day, sister Lucia writes this long letter, but within that she said the last great battle between our Lord and Satan is going to be over marriage and the family.
Speaker 1:And Father, you're right on. Maybe you could talk a little bit about what you're seeing out there today, just because you're a pastor of a congregation here. You're not just the head of this organization. You're seeing this and I'm sure you're hearing it in the confessional. There's a real attack and people need to be aware that when they were born, we didn't come into a neutral ground, did we? Father, you know our freedom. If we're not careful, our freedom will be taken away, and we do, we destroy our own lives, don't we?
Speaker 2:No, that's exactly right. You know people got to put everything in. You know there's that expression. You know, get real or live in the real. I live in the real world. Well, the most real world of all is the one that lasts forever, and that's the supernatural world from whence we came, and we're supernatural beings with physical bodies that, ultimately, were destined to have a glorified body. So we're always meant to be embodied, which is something another whole discussion, right, we're always meant to be embodied, which is something another whole discussion, right.
Speaker 2:But nevertheless, as you're saying, what I see as a pastor is, again, the fallen human nature is always there and weakness and people make mistakes in relationships and what you want to do. When I sit down with an engaged couple and have the first substantive conversation, I said let me take a wild guess. This is just a wild guess, but you want to have an incredibly great marriage. Oh, yes, we do, we do. I said, all right, what are the ingredients to a great marriage? And then we just kind of go from there, but understanding always that if you put Christ first and understand that, you are going to have ups and downs, and so how do I anticipate them and how do I prepare them for them? You prepare them most with that surrender to Christ and that's what's going to enable us.
Speaker 2:Because, in the end, what the old classic? The world of flesh and the devil. So I have my own selfishness that I'm struggling with all my life. Number one. Number two that the world will tell you at a moment of difficulty in a relationship, it's so easy to get a divorce. And guess what? Look at those TV shows. And the children are doing fine after the divorce, which is a lie. Children are traumatized.
Speaker 1:I meet them all the time. Father, it's a lie. They're not doing well, they're anxious, they're depressed. I won't get into that with you right now, but you're right, it's a lie, it's a lie. And it's not just little kids. I Little kids, I meet them in high school and in college and they're hurt, they're really hurt.
Speaker 2:They're really hurt. That's exactly right. And so, just keeping in mind that Christ God set up the blueprint, I mean not to sound too academic, but he set up the blueprint. So it's just like, can we really create a better blueprint than God created for marriage and the family? And we can't. And then again we have the hard. If you don't want to believe me, then just believe.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, the consequences, the sociology Since the 60s abortion has skyrocketed, Divorce has skyrocketed, Social diseases, children being born, Contraception was supposed to solve those problems. It exacerbated them, it metastasized those problems. And it shows you that when we rebel against God, it's not that God is afflicting us, it's that God was trying to protect us from the consequences, because we need no further proof of God's infinite love but his death on the cross and his resurrection, his willingness to forgive us a thousand times over. Right and so. But yeah, so the key is helping people to understand what real relationship, first and foremost, begins with God and your relationship with God. Putting him first constantly. That's the greatest gift you can give your children and know that you have a target on your back. The more and more you wanna be faithful to Christ, the bigger the target is on your back and hell wants to bring you down.
Speaker 1:And-? Yeah, and I think one of the things that Father Harvey did and the people that have followed him and now with you, is to show people with same-sex attraction and they would learn this if they come to a Courage meeting is that there's usually a wound in their past. Father, you know, as we get into our last five, 10 minutes here, can you speak to those wounds? Because I want to make a point with people that you didn't choose this and we know that. We know that most of these young people did not choose my brother did not choose to be attracted to same-sex attraction. He said to me one time. He said, jack, you think I would choose this, right, so we know that.
Speaker 1:But there's usually a wound, it's usually for a man, it's a father wound, right, it's some separation, it's emotional or physical separation, or even abuse, you know. So there could be a lot of things going on there, but at the end of the day, I think that's really important to bring up, because sometimes then we use our emotions, we get away from our reason, natural law, right. We get away from our reason, our intellect, and we use our free will, we think, because I'm feeling like I need to feel that. So I detach from my father, say in a way, right, it's a defensive mechanism, maybe, or as a way to protect myself from being hurt, but now I want to feel that right, I want that relationship. The problem is, father, when it gets twisted, we think it's a sexualization.
Speaker 1:I speak to people about this all the time because they ask me. They say, jack, after your talk today, maybe I'm not gay. You know what I mean. It's the first time they heard maybe they're not gay. So can you talk in our last few minutes here, father, about that? We have some wounds, but what we're talking about here is not to sexualize them. That's where the problem comes in Actually get a chance to heal, to really heal.
Speaker 2:That's right. It's like, yeah, sexualizing something is almost like self-medicating, right? I'm just desperately looking for happiness, and so I'm reaching out for something that's immediate, that's easy, and it gives me a euphoria for a little bit, but then I feel incredibly empty. And again we can go back to the great St Augustine. He goes, lord, make me chase, but not yet. And so he wanted to indulge, but he knew it was wrong, he knew it was a dead end, but he didn't want to give it up. And that's the struggle of every single human being. There's something in me that I don't want to give up, but I know I really should. And then freedom awaits me, although I have to pass through that kind of that mourning stage of detaching myself from that sin or that selfish inclination, and so, yeah, so the deep, you know the original wound, of course, is the original sin, and then there's a subjectivity that goes with that right.
Speaker 2:So we'll all suffer from some kind of you know. That's why our Lord says you know, don't judge. In the sense that a mom and dad judges the actions of their children. They have to correct them. That's legitimate and actually morally demanding. But we can't judge the inner sanctum of the human art because we don't know that exact position of that person with Almighty God, and when people and this is where modern psychology, as long as it subordinates itself to God, can be very effective, and that is that people have compulsions, people have difficulties, and so the culpability of the person can be very, very different, even though someone may commit the same action.
Speaker 2:The church has nothing but great compassion. The fundamental drive is the salvation of souls, and God number one loves everyone, absolutely no matter who they are. There's no one God loves less. There's no one God forsakes. There's no one God rejects in this life whatsoever, and there's no one God didn't die for's. No one God forsakes. There's no one God rejects in this life whatsoever, and there's no one God didn't die for on the cross and wants to heal, and there's no one that God holds any kind of people we hold grudges. God doesn't hold a grudge. He will wash away your sins, and so the one person you can always count on keeping their promises is Jesus Christ, our Lord. Your friends may abandon you, but then they weren't your friends in the first place. True spiritual friendship is one who's looking out for your salvation and wants to be there for you, no matter what.
Speaker 2:I always remember one story of Benedict Groeschel when he talks about how a young man, probably in his 20s, just kind of closed himself off in conversation to him and he was going to just descend into the same-sex culture in New York. So this is probably back in the 80s. And Benedict Cushel just told him look, you're not hearing me. I can tell he goes, but I love you very much and that door is open. I want you to come back and continue to talk to me, but what you're doing is not going to make you happy. And so he was very firm about the truth, but he was also very firm about his unconditional love for that young man.
Speaker 2:And that's holy mother church. You know that there is no. So don't be afraid and and beware of the caricatures that the secular society tries to cast on the church. The church wants to deny you pleasure. It wants to deny you happiness. Nothing could be further from the truth. You know, because we know in the end there's pleasure and joy. Thomas aquinas does a beautiful job with this but there's the immediate pleasure of an instant which could be fine, like I'm celebrating a birthday, I'm celebrating Easter Sunday, we have a banquet, that's great. But then joy is something far more deeper and actually I find a joy in fasting for the Lord. I find the mother and father don't want to get out of bed at 3 am and hold the crying baby.
Speaker 2:I just want one good night's sleep.
Speaker 2:Get up and it's a sacrifice and it's not pleasurable, but it's something of great joy and I want to bring comfort to my child. So, in sacrifice for God, you're going and the devil doesn't want. It's like you've mined and mined, you crummy rock and then you hit the mother load and you hit the gold and I suddenly find a joy in self-sacrificing and self-giving to God and that's what the devil does not want you to discover and that's what our Lord is ready to unleash with you in spades. But you know, and always remember, that our emotions deceive us, but God will never deceive us. And so we go through difficult times and we get depressed. Some people even suffer from depression, but that's not anyway an indicator of your relationship with God whatsoever. The indicator of our relationship with God is the words of Christ I am with you always, until the end of the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so beautiful. Father, I know you got some deadlines coming up, so we're going to have to let you go, but it's just a reminder that when a young person, whether it's same-sex attraction or anything, you know Satan wants to get at you, doesn't he? You know Satan doesn't have his own clay. He wants to twist and distort who we are, our sexuality, any way he can to distort it. And we have to realize that, don't we, father? Because when we try to stand up, we need prayer, the sacraments, and like courage, and a parish, a good parish. We need community. We need prayer, the sacraments and like courage. In a parish, a good parish, we need community. We need community because this battle's not going to be easy, but if we understand it, then we can fight it, father, can't we? If we understand that we're in a battle, I think we can fight it.
Speaker 2:Then we're going to fight it with grace is number one right. That's right. Grace and grace builds on nature. So we've got to practice the virtues so that grace can take full effect.
Speaker 1:That's where chastity comes in, father right. That's where the virtue of chastity comes in.
Speaker 2:Right. So the more I practice the virtue of chastity, the more the grace can really really help me move in that direction. Yes, thank you, but that's what I have to tell the kids. Holy Communion is not a magic little pill. It doesn't transform you into a saint. If you're not practicing the faith, then our Lord is you're shutting your heart. Yes, I have to say yes.
Speaker 1:I always tell people you know, kneel first thing in the morning, don't look at that phone. Kneel with our Blessed Mother and give your fiat your yes. Let it be done to me according to your word, If you do that right away, before you look at that phone. And then for young people to know that temptation is not a sin. So now during my day, I will be tempted if I'm trying to be good, right to do the good. But now every temptation is an invitation to prayer. If you remember that, you'll be praying all day, father. And the last thing I tell people just go love the next person. You see, that's all Go love the next person.
Speaker 2:No, you're exactly right, and watch out, for you know, sometimes we fall into sin and we can fall into that trap of self-loathing and we start to hate ourselves. God doesn't hate you. The devil in the world wants to convince you. The church is not going to like you, but no, that's where you're going to find the most authentic and most supportive love of all. So self-loathing is just a sign that we're going down the wrong way, but that Christ's love is the answer to that and not the path of the world, because that'll just make us more angry at ourselves.
Speaker 1:Father. The last thing I'll say here is I just had this image while you were talking, that if I have a father wound as a man in my life right and I've detached somehow and I'm looking to fill it, I mean go to God, the Father. I mean, what a beautiful image that is right that I am. Actually, through his Son, jesus Christ, I can be filled with the Holy Spirit, filled with God's love, right of the very Father, my Creator himself. And it's true, I know it in my heart and I can tell the way you're speaking right now, father. You know that yourself too, don't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's absolutely right. If we can just let God be the guide in us on love, we're going to discover a love that the world could never give, and a love of the most incredible, fulfilling and deepest satisfaction.
Speaker 1:Father, you're such a joy I got to let you go. I could talk to you for another couple hours, but I know you've got other things on your plate, so thank you so much. Thanks for joining us, Father Gannon. If anybody's in, is it Trumbull right, Connecticut? Visit St Teresa, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, we got a perpetual adoration chapel 168 hours, round-the-clock adoration, so come and join us in prayer anytime, beautiful.
Speaker 1:We will Father. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for your kindness, jack, great to be with you. Thank you, bye-bye.