Become Who You Are
What’s the meaning and purpose of my life? What is my true identity? Why were we created male and female? How do I find happiness, joy and peace? How do I find love that lasts, forever? These are the timeless questions of the human heart. Join Jack Rigert and his guests for lively insights, reading the signs of our times through the lens of Catholic Teaching and the insights of Saint John Paul ll to guide us.
Saint Catherine of Siena said "Become who you are and you would set the world on fire".
Become Who You Are
#510 Innovations in Women’s Reproductive Health from the St. Paul VI Institute: Special Guest Dr. Teresa Hilgers
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Initially I asked Dr. Teresa Hilgers of the world renowned Saint Paul VI Institute to come on our show to address the effect of contraceptives, especially oral contraceptives, on women's overall health. She did that and much more. It is our hope that you will take the time to listen or watch the interview and share it with friends and family. In addition your Parish Priest will find it helpful when addressing fertility issues with young couples, especially those preparing for marriage or dealing with infertility.
I invite you to join the conversation as we address the important topic of natural fertility care with Dr. Teresa Hilgers and explore the revolutionary innovations of the St. Paul VI Institute. Learn firsthand about the creation and global impact of the Creighton Model and NaPro Technology, developed by her father, Dr. Thomas Hilgers, along with his dedicated team. Discover how these groundbreaking methods support women in achieving or delaying pregnancy, while addressing a variety of gynecological issues in harmony with their natural cycles.
Dr. Teresa Hilgers also shares her expert insights on the ethical and medical implications of using birth control pills for health purposes beyond contraception. We discuss the significant side effects and the failure of these pills to address underlying health issues, offering an alternative perspective grounded in ethical medicine and aligned with the Catholic Church's teachings. You'll also gain a deeper understanding of natural family planning as a viable and effective alternative for delaying pregnancy and the value of understanding fertility cycles as a couple.
Explore the critical importance of fertility education, the risks and benefits of birth control, and the need for proactive diagnosis of conditions like endometriosis. Dr. Teresa provides valuable resources for finding NaPro doctors and outlines the global reach of their practice. Embrace the spirit of curiosity and questioning in science as we conclude with an enlightening discussion on the essence of scientific inquiry and the importance of humility in the medical field. This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone seeking ethical and effective reproductive health solutions.
In closing a reminder that this show is available on any podcast or music app or the video podcast accessed on X or our website: JP2Renew.org
Additional resources:
Dr. Thomas Hilgers joins Jack, some past episodes:
#179 Woman's Reproductive Health with Dr. Thomas Hilgers, Director of the Saint Paul VI Institute
#101: “Good News” in Women’s Reproductive Health, Dr. Hilgers is with us!!
Fertility Care.org
Saint Paul VI Institute (Please support the Institutes research and training!)
Saint John Paul the Great Society of Procreative Surgeons
I am very excited and grateful to have Dr Teresa Hilgers with us today. Our audience will be familiar with her father, dr Thomas Hilgers, who's been on the show a number of times, her mom, sue, who I haven't had on the show but I wish I would sometimes. She's just such a sweetheart and I had a chance to meet them a year or so ago at a conference and we had such a good time. Dr Teresa Hilgers completed her undergraduate studies at Baylor University. Her master's from Georgetown went on to medical school at Creighton University, trained in obstetrics and gynecology at Mercy Hospital in St Louis. She then completed one-year fellowship in medical and surgical NAPRO technology and is now a staff physician at the St Paul VI Institute, where she actively is involved in the education of the fellows who train at the Institute. Dr Hilgers, it's so good to be with you Welcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2:Well, I asked you to come on to address the effects of contraception, especially oral contraceptives, on women's overall health. But I'd love to begin with a little background on you, your father, the St Paul VI Institute. Your father pioneered the Creighton model and I don't know if he did that alone, but I know he pioneered the Creighton model to track women's cycles and that would assist them in both delaying and achieving pregnancy. Do I have that right?
Speaker 1:So he actually developed the Creighton model with three other women, or three women my mom one of them, and then two nurses in St Louis and preble and Diane Daly Um.
Speaker 1:My parents lived in St Louis at the time and they developed this research project and um. To keep a short a long story short, uh, they ended up developing the Creighton model, um through research, and actually Diane Daly and my mom continue to work with my dad on the Creighton model. Anne Preble sadly passed away from ovarian cancer a number of years ago, but she was involved in training Creighton model teachers around the world and would travel. Even during some of her treatments for cancer she was traveling the world teaching people. So it was the four of them who developed the Crate model and then Napro technology is the medical science that arose from that.
Speaker 1:Because, you're right, crate model can be used to avoid or achieve pregnancy. It's very effective at both. But my dad's patients would bring their charts to him with gynecologic issues and he was like, huh, these charts are starting to look the same for different issues and he realized that the chart was telling him something. And then he developed NAPRA technology, which is a health science that utilizes a crate model to evaluate medical conditions, come up with the correct diagnosis and then treat the women's cycles in a way that or treat the condition that cooperates with the cycle instead of suppressing it. So it's trying to work with the body and all that. So that's where it all developed, actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Now you're located in Omaha. Nebraska but your reach goes on way well beyond there, and can you just touch that just on that a little bit because the the you know I, you know your dad and mom sent me a picture when your dad met john paul ii. Yeah, and then he took up this call right for doctors and scientists to come into this field to help people, right you know, to, to decide on family size, but also to help them with fertility, and I think people forget about that.
Speaker 2:I'll just put. Let me just say this one thing, dr Teresa, is that when I'm speaking on these issues to the public, so often women will be upset because they'll say you know, ivf is against, you know, catholic teaching, et cetera. And there'll be they'll. They'll start to cry because they want a baby, right, they want to form a fan. It has been incredibly, uh, um, it's just an incredible blessing to to understand Nate Pearl technology, to meet your dad and your, your mom, your family, you, and to be able to bring hope to these people. And I segue that because you're, they don't have to go to just the Omaha, even though I know you're, you're, you're, you're, you're busy there and that's your headquarters. But there's doctors I'm in, I'm in the, what I call the belly of the beast here with, uh, illinois. It's just so terrible with with life issues, you know. But there's NAPRO doctors here too, and it's wonderful to be able to say to them ah, I've got something for you to help with your fertility.
Speaker 2:And not only do I have something, but I have something that's going to not just, you know, put a Band-Aid on your issues, but go deeper and actually help you heal your body heal. And now you're training doctors really all over the world for this.
Speaker 1:That's right. So my parents. They started the Pope Paul VI Institute in 1985, but the dream started actually the day they found out that Pope Paul VI passed away. They decided they would build the Institute the day they heard the news at mass. That's where they heard that he had passed. So anyway. So it's been a long process for them. They developed the Institute first, and then NAPRA technology developed and they were training crate model teachers long before they were training medical doctors, and then solely medical doctors.
Speaker 1:You know there are doctors out there who want to practice good medicine. That's in line with their faith and their patient's faith. But unfortunately, in medicine today, you know it's you're made to feel, as a Catholic physician, that if you don't prescribe the birth control pill, then you're practicing terrible medicine or inferior medicine. But physicians are searching for good medicine too. That's in line with their faith. So slowly, physicians would start to come and train with my dad, and then NAPRA technology has been around for over 30 years now, and in 2004, my dad published a textbook on the medical and surgical practices of NAPRA technology, and I think around that time is probably when it skyrocketed in the training of doctors. So we have doctors trained around the world all over, every single continent except Antarctica.
Speaker 2:My dad always likes to joke, well he hasn't figured out how to help the penguins yet, but they don't have a use for us.
Speaker 1:So you know, I actually get to work with physicians. I mean, I have conference calls with physicians from Europe. We talk about, you know, principles of create, model and opera technology. We discussed difficult cases, latin america. I mean we um gosh, um, a few years ago, finished a project where we could do our training courses for the teaching crate model completely in spanish, so that they can train new teachers um, in latin america, central america, south America, and they don't have to come to the United States and take an English course. They can do it all in their first language.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, what a blessing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so all the doctors, though and with the physician side, though, all the doctors end up coming to Omaha for their training, and so we have hands-on teaching with them. But we just had an education course this past spring, and we had many doctors from the country of Brazil, and you know, we have doctors from all over. So the problem is, even when we say we have doctors all over, there's still a need for more of us actually. Yes, there is Well not enough.
Speaker 2:No, there's a big need and you know, as you were speaking there about medicine today, you know people are finally waking up and I don't want to get you off track here because we got to get to the.
Speaker 2:You know, and that was such a wonderful way to lay this out. You know, and if people I'll I'll put in the podcast notes. You know, a couple of our prior podcasts with Dr Hilger so that people can really understand. You know that even the surgical procedures, you know, with endometriosis and things like that, so important right To actually heal a woman's body and not just be out for the money. And look at, I know and I'll say this because I met so many of the NAPRO doctors they all sacrificed, you know, some financial gain and so did your family over the years to get this out. And this is really a powerful thing right In a time, dr Teresa, where everybody's just so greedy and it's all about the dollar and these big corporations. And here we have these lights again, you know, these lights of people that speak the truth and they actually love what they're doing, love helping people, and it's it's very inspiring, very inspiring I mean growing up watching my parents.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, I didn't actually want to be a doctor because I saw how hard my dad worked and I also saw my dad was alone for a very long time on all this. So to me I actually went to Baylor to be a history teacher.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:I joke because my first year of college I prided on myself I took no science classes. I took one math class because they told me I needed it to get into the honors society, which I ended up not applying for. But it's funny because, god, sometimes I just remember, towards the end of my freshman year of college I just had this inkling, thought well, maybe I should be open to medicine. What if I don't want to completely close the door? That's the first time I ever thought maybe, and I like to tell people I made a major U-turn, I had to make up. But anyway, you know, I saw how hard my parents work and they still work hard to this day. I mean, they're still. My mom always jokes we should be work and they still work hard to this day. I mean, there's still. My mom always jokes we should be retired and they should be. But they care so much about, about others that I have a hard and they love what they do. I have a hard time thinking that they'll ever completely stop.
Speaker 1:But you know it was a lot of hard work for a long time and so my dad was a lot of times the only physician you know doing this, and so you know, sometimes when you're a young kid and you see that you're like, oh shoot, I don't, I don't want to go through the same obstacles and struggles. But you know now he's trained so many more doctors and there are a lot more of us who think similarly or are trying to help our patients in similar ways. And you know now that I've had the opportunity to practice medicine so I can't imagine practicing medicine any other way. It's so fulfilling and how we take care of patients. And we do have a large population of women who are infertile. But we tell our patients all the time. You know, our number one goal is actually to make to help you feel better, you know, because no one can guarantee a pregnancy, but you do deserve the opportunity to feel better because many times, you know, infertility is well not. Many times infertility is a symptom of something else.
Speaker 2:It's not the actual cause.
Speaker 1:And many times these women feel poorly, in addition to undergoing infertility. You know struggle and it is a cross that they bear. So you know, our goal really is to help build well, help women feel better and build healthy marriages, support the marriage, support families and the children that might come out of these marriages, support healthy pregnancies and all that. So it's really wide reaching in many ways, support healthy pregnancies and all that. So it's really wide reaching in many ways. And, um, the more I do this, I'm so appreciative of the work that my dad put in, so now I have a different view than I did when I was little, and so well, they're so lucky to have you.
Speaker 2:I mean, I would think, from your dad and mom's perspective, you know, as they, as they, leave a legacy behind it. You know, I mean to be able to know. I know you know, I mean to be able to know. I know, as a father, to be able to know that my children are behind me and can you know, and can carry this, this torch. It's something very, very special, you know, um I know it's great.
Speaker 1:I have to laugh because, you know, like any good child, we don't always listen to our parents, right and now I know I always listen to my dad when it comes to anything. There are a few times early in my career where I would talk to him about something and he like, well, you should really do this. And I thought, no, I don't think I need to do that. And I always regretted not doing what he told me.
Speaker 2:There's some wisdom that comes with age, isn't there, dr Teresa? There's some wisdom that comes with age. We find the same thing, you know. As we segue to the topic today, let me just tell you a quick story. So I have three children. My youngest one is a doctor, a girl, but anyways, when she was in high school she had some issues with her cycle and I remember my wife taking her to the doctor and she came back with the pill. My wife had taken her to the doctor and she came back with the pill. And my wife wasn't Catholic, and so here I am, a practicing Catholic at that time, came back into the church Long story.
Speaker 2:But then I was studying John Paul II's Theology of the Body, st Paul Pope, paul VI's Humanae Vitae, so I understood all the things that we had done wrong, you know, in our marriage.
Speaker 2:But then I understood, from a Catholic perspective, that you shouldn't be on on the pill, right? Well, my, my wife and I argued about that because she said well, jack, it's not being used as a contraception, it's contraceptive, it's being used to to help heal her body. And I thought, you know, I don't know about that. So I started to do a little work and then my daughter, who was a pretty good athlete and as an athlete she's pretty in tune with her body. She wasn't on that pill for very long, dr Teresa, and she was experiencing side effects and she got off of it on her own side effects, and she got off of it on her own, and I was always grateful for that. And so let's talk a little bit about that, because there's so many women out there that just accept it and it's not to your point. It's not really healing the underlying issues, is it, and it's bringing some side effects that aren't good for a woman's body.
Speaker 1:I think that's exactly right and it's a great topic to discuss because, you know, in today's society too, you know, on a national level, there's all this discussion about birth control now becoming over-the-counter, you know, and all this, so you know, when we look at the birth control history.
Speaker 1:it was originally designed for birth control purposes. It wasn't originally designed for health purposes, right? So it's in. So you always have to think about medicines what was it initially designed for? Now there are many medicines we use for different things than they were initially designed for, but when we talk about birth control pills, there are actually a lot of issues with it and side effects and all that. So it's interesting.
Speaker 1:This is a great topic. A few years ago, one of my Spanish colleagues at the time she actually wanted us to kind of discuss. You know how do we discuss the topics when other physicians say well, I have a patient with abnormal bleeding, so I need to use birth control for that. How do we discuss that? Because we talk about the ethical side and you know what our faith teaches us and what the Catholic church teaches us about. You know the birth control pill and contraceptives and all that. But what about the medical side and how do we discuss that? So that question actually caused me to actually dive into this topic, because what I realize is, whenever we're in medicine, we actually have two responsibilities and in order to determine whether or not something is good medical treatment we have to make sure that number one, that it is ethical treatment, because unethical treatments typically lead to more issues, more problems, more dilemmas. Let's pause on that for a second.
Speaker 2:Just everybody should take a deep breath right here, because I was just thinking about this before you came on. I thought, wow, you know everything that the church has taught me through the years. And again I got away from the church, dr Teresa, for 20 years. I was brought back, actually on my brother's deathbed, who was dying of AIDS, who had come back into the church brings us back into the church on his deathbed, and that started me on this path thinking. You know, when the church tells you to do something, it's usually good for you, and not only for your soul but for your body. So can you just say what you said again about this? Do you remember?
Speaker 1:what you said about this, yeah, so it is important that we have ethics in medicine, because unethical medicine leads to more issues. It never solves the problem it seeks to solve. It ends up opening, in some ways, a very small Pandora's box in that issue. I think IVF is an excellent example. You know, the church is against IVF and I do not recommend IVF, you know, and there's many reasons for it, my many, many reasons, including what my faith teaches. But I have medical reasons and other reasons where I just actually don't think it's good treatment. But IVF, you know, what does IVF now allow? Well, ivf has led to the issues with surrogacy. Surrogacy has a lot of issues with it.
Speaker 1:Selective reduction when you have multiple pregnancies. You know there was a time where people would undergo IVF. The woman would then become pregnant with three or four babies. Now what do we do? We don't want quadruplets, so let's reduce. Or you know there's talk about three parents potentially. So IVF. And what do we do about storing all these embryos that are now frozen? So we've created actually further dilemmas and the embryo storage problem is a huge issue. It's a huge issue and we don't have a great answer for it, but that developed from unethical medical treatment developed from unethical medical treatment.
Speaker 2:And let me just add one more, because you know, as I read and study and reach out to people that were born through a surrogate parent who never met, say their mom, right, these are big deals, and I just bring it up quickly. It's another one of those issues. This is a human issue and the mom herself, who is not looking, being seen as a human being anymore but it's just an object to use as a baby manufacturing plant. But then when you don't know your mom or you don't know your dad, it's you know this is not just no big deal, this is a big deal.
Speaker 1:Well, there's a lot of talk too about you know children who have a Rye are conceived with donor sperm that they have a lot of issues when they grew up, a lot of questions of who I am, where do I come from?
Speaker 1:And there are books written on this, and so you know what are we doing, these children? I think one thing that you brought up is the use of objects. So you know we are actually taught to love people. We're supposed to love people and use objects, but in today's world we are currently using people as we use people, and we love our objects, we love our materials, and so we have twisted ourselves into.
Speaker 1:This is a really distorted way of looking at human beings, and I think a lot of that started with contraception, because what does contraception teach us? And this is a side effect of contraception Contraception teaches us that it is okay to use the other person's body for our sexual pleasure or whatever it might be right, and it's not for because you necessarily love the other person, for the betterment of that person. The Catholic Church teaches that contraception is wrong because there's a unitive and procreative aspect to the sexual intercourse that married couples undergo and you cannot separate the two. But contraception seeks to separate the two and so, innately, it's going to teach us that other people are objects to be used for our desires or pleasures or our impulses, whatever it might be, and so there's a whole issue there, and you could argue that that is a side effect of contraception.
Speaker 1:But when we talk about medicine, you know, so we ethical. It is important that when we are treating patients, that we are ethical and that the treatments we utilize are ethical. But the second issue so there's two criteria, I believe, for good medicine. The second issue is, yes, it has to be ethical. But two, it has to be good medicine. You have to have research behind it. It needs to be sound. So we have two criteria we must meet when it comes to medicine. Now, medicine is science, right? And when it comes to science, you know, asking scientific questions, we don't know all the answers. So sometimes you have to ask a question, okay, now how am I going to figure out how to answer this?
Speaker 1:And sometimes we propose a theory and we might be wrong. Okay, but then be honest, hey, this was wrong, but we're going to continue to seek. So when we talk about contraception, then I could, I could.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to get you off track, but when you say those things, I could. There's a whole host of questions that I'm sure in the audience is mine too. I mean just all the things that we see in medicine and science today where we're not asking those questions. What you're talking about again, when you, when you seek the good of a human person first, you start asking these questions and you know there's another side effect. When you don't, you know you can go. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's actually really bad to stop asking questions, because how do we continue to learn and understand? It's by asking questions, you know, like children ask questions all the time. Why? Because they don't know or they don't understand, but we don't say, hey, stop asking questions Now, maybe if they've asked you 20 times, why is the sky blue? You know, maybe you might say hey we don't need to ask that question, but normally we find it endearing.
Speaker 1:But you know we have to ask questions and that's the process through how science continues to move forward and if you stop asking questions, science will stop and probably move backwards because you're going to lose ground on the research that you could have had. So when we talk about contraceptives and one of our objects that we have to discuss is whether or not it's actually good medicine. So I think that's a very important thing. Not, it's actually good medicine. So I think that's a very important thing. And now I know that probably over 90% of the physicians in this country and probably around the world will say yes, it's good medicine, it's used all the time. All that and that's a lot of it is related to how we were taught in our medical training, our education. It's just ingrained in us that you use contraception for all sorts of things. So, um, there's, for example, acog, which is one of the OBGYN societies within America. They have these practice bulletins that you read as a physician to understand guidelines for taking care of certain conditions, and one of them discusses the use of oral contraceptives for proposed medical benefit or for proposed like non-contraceptive benefit essentially to treat medical conditions, benefit, essentially to treat medical conditions.
Speaker 1:So the argument is that birth control pills will treat the pain associated with periods, it will treat heavy bleeding and there's many different things that they list, and this is just a few of them. Also, it decreases the risk of ovarian cancer and colon cancer and uterine cancer. Now I think cancer, when you say something decreases it. Oh my gosh, we need to discuss this, and why is not everyone on it? But on the flip side, there is actually issues with how we discuss these things, because the question is what is causing the pain with those periods? And the birth control pill actually only treats the symptom. Now, one thing in NAPRO technology that we do a lot of is we treat a lot of endometriosis. Women with infertility have very high rates of endometriosis, for example, and a study my dad did years ago out of 660 infertile couples that came to him, 77.4% of them the women had endometriosis.
Speaker 1:Now we actually wonder if it's higher than that, because it seems like more and more women have it. But one common thing that you will find in women with infertility as they were put on the birth control pill when they were in high school for painful periods, maybe they stayed on for 10 years. Some women stopped the birth control pill because they didn't like the side effects. It could be emotional side effects, could be abnormal bleeding. Many times women stop the birth control pill because you know what they tell me. It didn't solve my pain. I did this birth control, then that birth control, then this and nothing worked.
Speaker 2:You mean trying different kinds of?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they try all sorts of different kinds and it worked. But you know when they want to have a baby. And now they've stopped the birth control and they've been trying for five years. Let's say, guess what? They have Endometriosis. It never got rid of the disease. And now we've created a new problem. Because if we had solved that problem when she first arrived, when that woman first came to the doctor's office as a teenager complaining of pain, we should have figured out what was causing the pain at that point. Instead they get put on the birth control pill and now we delay the process of that treatment and now it's wreaked havoc on her body. It's very inflammatory.
Speaker 2:So young women at that age, even in high school, already have endometriosis.
Speaker 1:Oh, we, we have um. I have seen some really.
Speaker 2:What causes that? Is that too hard to you know? Don't, don't, don't, let me take you down that rabbit hole. Well, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's a whole nother topic. But you know there's a lot of arguments about what causes endometriosis. The old argument was that when women menstruate some of that fluid comes back out through the floping tubes and retrograde menstruation and implants into the cavity. That was the long argument for it. A lot of people now are not so sure that that's the correct thing. But some people argue it's autoimmune, some people argue that we're born with it, it's embryologic.
Speaker 1:Um, we still don't a hundred percent understand it and to be honest I would argue one reason we don't understand it as well as we should it's really a terrible condition is because we we put so much money in research in the birth control pills and not enough of that effort goes to the endometriosis side. But what we see all the time here is that women are just kicking the can down the road for when their disease actually has to get addressed. And it is well known that women with endometriosis there's a long time of delay to that diagnosis, typically between seven and nine years before they're formally diagnosed with the disease.
Speaker 2:So you're saying, if I hear you right, that this is a progressive disease. In other words, if we don't treat it, will it always, Does it tend to get worse, do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, rarely will you find it regress. So go improve. Typically what you'll find is it either stays the same or it progresses. But you know, birth control pills are argued to actually be a treatment for the pain related to endometriosis or painful periods, but it doesn't treat the underlying condition or the disease, which has many ramifications for the woman's long-term health as well. In her future fertility has many ramifications for the woman's long-term health as well and her future fertility. So when we operate on patients here at the Institute, sometimes patients come to us because they're on birth control for pain.
Speaker 1:There is an argument that birth control suppresses endometriosis. We ask patients to actually stop the birth control pill before we operate on them so that we don't miss any of their endometriosis. I think that the birth control pill probably alters the appearance of some of the small lesions of endometriosis. But I could show you I mean you would be shocked to see how much endometriosis these women have and they are only been off the pill maybe two, two months. That did not arise in two months from being off the pill. That was there all along and so it didn't improve the disease.
Speaker 1:Um, now one question is so the rate of progress? Well, again, I would argue, if you treat it right at the beginning, you're gonna give better results later on. So that's one thing with the birth control pill and I think too, the other thing with cancer. This is a really big one because we have to be honest when we look at these issues. And you know, as I mentioned, birth control pills have been shown to reduce the risk of ovarian cancer, colon cancer and uterine cancer, but they are known to increase the risk of ovarian cancer, colon cancer and uterine cancer, but they are known to increase the risk of breast and cervical cancer. Now, out of all of those cancers, breast cancer is the most common cancer.
Speaker 2:So women- and it's common today. I mean, it's really common.
Speaker 1:And if you actually look at the rates of cases that are diagnosed each year, it's actually increasing. So you can find these statistics online. But over the last 20 years, the new cases of breast cancer are only increasing and they're not decreasing. And we spend all this money into research, all this money right, to figure out how to treat breast cancer because, honestly, we want to reduce the risk of cancer. You know, we want to reduce the rates of cancer. We want to create better treatments for women with cancer. But there are a lot of studies out there that actually show that history of birth control oral contraceptives, for example increase the risk for breast cancer and in some studies it shows a 20% to 30% increased risk, which is a large risk percent increased risk, which is a large risk um, and and there's a few studies that definitely show that it increases the risk in women when they were put on the birth control pill before their first full-time, first full um, full-term pregnancy.
Speaker 2:So that's gonna be most of your teenagers and they're, and, they're, yeah, and they're being told the opposite. Then, as from right, they're being told that it can reduce well, they'll be told that it reduces ovarian and colon cancer cancer.
Speaker 1:But out of all those numbers, breast cancer far and away is higher okay, it's higher.
Speaker 1:And you know, the other thing too is many people actually will say birth control pills don't increase the risk of breast cancer. Doctors will argue that that's not true, but there are multiple studies that show that this is true and it does occur, and they're not all from the 80s. These studies. I mean there are more recent studies that show that. So this is something that's been shown. Show that. So this is something that's been shown.
Speaker 1:And but when a woman, let's say a 17 year old teenager, goes into the doctor's office and her mom is there with her because she's a minor and they are talking about putting her on birth control for acne, one of the questions I have is is a physician informing them that, well, this may increase your daughter's risk for breast cancer? Because if that were my child now, acne can be very serious and there's a lot of issues with that, you know, especially socially. It can be really really tough for people and I'm not trying to diminish that at all. But if I were a mom I would think, oh my gosh, do I want to treat the acne with this or do I want to find something else where maybe I won't increase my daughter's risk for breast cancer 20 years from now?
Speaker 2:or 40 years from now? Yeah, and what else could that daughter expect? Because again, my daughter, and it was a long time ago, I should have called her and asked her if she remembers exactly what that was. But there's other physical and emotional effects, right?
Speaker 1:Right. So some women complain. Well, first off, a lot of women will complain the reason they went on the birth control in the first place. Whatever the medical condition, it actually never took care of the issue. So that's one complaint. You'll get that the reason I went on the medicine in the first place. That issue was never resolved.
Speaker 1:A lot of women will complain about abnormal bleeding on it. You will hear women complain about headaches when they're on it, mood swings. You know a lot of different things and every woman's a little different and you know every medication just about has a side effect to it and so how one woman will respond to a medication might be different than someone else. And you will have women say that they feel really great on birth control. But I think one of the things we just have to discuss is that in our society today we do lift birth control up as this amazing treatment for women's healthcare right that everyone should be on birth control for all their gynecologic issues. It's just this amazing medicine and we should allow everyone to be on it.
Speaker 1:But you know it's kind of ignoring the negative side effects of it. And there are negative side effects. It doesn't solve all the issues and there are risks associated with it, but you don't hear that discussed, hardly at all in the conversations that we have today. And, to be honest, if you're going to solve problems, you have to be willing to ask those questions and you have to be and to be honest. If you're going to solve problems, you have to be willing to ask those questions and you have to be willing to be honest with people too, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, not only that, you know, for young people. I'll tell you a side effect that some people don't think about. It takes one of the barriers down, the fear of pregnancy down, and so you have an increase in promiscuity. You know sexual activity, and then you have an increase in STDiscuity. You know sexual activity and then and then you have an increase in stds right, I mean I, I heard stats.
Speaker 2:I had a dr miriam grossman on on the show some time ago talking about, uh, you know, some of these trans issues, some other things, but but she identified this very early, when she was in counseling, and now she's a ph Dr Marion Grossman not an MD and um in psychology, and so what she was finding is all of these women coming in that were on the pill for years and years and years, uh, with not only STDs but with a real emotional problems from getting back to our earlier conversation from being used and abused and and and and and also not feeling good, you know, from being on the pill. So so you know there was a lot of issues there and she tried to, and I remember I don't know if she said she just tried to get them to go off of. I don't remember exactly that conversation anymore, but but she identified these issues early.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting Cause one thing my dad I was with him one day and he was watching the news and they're talking about birth control and women deserve the right to control their bodies, and I remember my dad made the comment that they don't even know what they're trying to control. Okay, so you could listen to that comment and go well, that's kind of harsh, but what does that mean? What he was really saying is actually women have a very poor understanding of their menstrual cycles and the reproductive health I have women. When I tell them they need a chart crate model, they come back and they go. I'm embarrassed, I'm in my thirties and I didn't know this about my body, or I wish I had learned this years ago, or I and I hear this. I mean, you'll hear this over and over again.
Speaker 1:Women actually do not understand how their body works. Another great example is women will often say my husband looks at me and I get pregnant. Well, no, that's not how it works. But what they're saying is one act of intercourse and they're pregnant.
Speaker 1:But if you actually understand how your fertility works, that actually is not necessarily inaccurate, because if you have normal fertility and you know when you're fertile, 76 percent of couples will be pregnant the first cycle. They use fertile days, so that's normal. So what you have to understand is when you're fertile and when you're not fertile, and then make a joint decision as a couple are we going to try for a pregnancy this month or not? Is this a good month or not? Is this a good time or not? And so you know, we, we. There's a lot of things that women actually don't understand about their bodies, but we've been taught that the birth control is so crucial to what we do and yet we don't realize how it really damages our relationships. It can change. You know, a lot of these birth control pills have these very potent artificial form of hormones that have negative side effects. They can change your mood, your personality. Some of them have more testosterone driven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's, let's dwell there just a little bit because, I think that's kind of what a lot of women that I talk to you know I mean it. It even it decreases their desire for, for, for sexual activity, for, for, you know, with their husbands. And I wonder sometimes if it's because they've been on the pill so much they're being being kind of used, even if it's not planned that way, being used as an object and then finally, you know, just get tired of it. But there's also some actual physical reasons for that, isn't there that you know their libido is decreased.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, some women complain of fatigue when they're on the birth control pill or just an overall generalized not feeling well. And then you try to figure out what's going on. And they've been on the pill for so long that sometimes it's hard for them to realize it was because they started the birth control pill. Or you also have to think could it be the underlying condition Maybe they're trying to treat with the birth control pill is never properly treated and you're just taking the medicine and that condition is just smoldering underneath and not ever getting addressed and not getting better. And then the other thing too is what's its negative impact on the relationship? You know, I think it's really important that you talk.
Speaker 1:We talk about using people. Well, the husband can use the wife and the wife can use the husband. It can go both ways. You hear about women who well, I stopped my birth control and didn't tell my husband so I could become pregnant. Well, that's probably not the best way to try to have a baby. You know, that's actually, you could argue, using your husband just to become pregnant. But you know, and today yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes, as a man, I think you know we're always on the bad side of things. But it's not true.
Speaker 1:No, it's not true. No, it's not true. When it comes to relationships, you know there's two people in the relationship and relationships are hard. They take work, and most of the things that are worthwhile in life are hard and take work. Right, but so, yeah, I think, the birth control pill. There's a lot of issues with it, and number one is the. The funny thing is is everyone thinks we need it to actually practice medicine and to treat these conditions. Well, I can tell you, I graduated from residency in 2016. I did a one-year fellowship, so I've had my own patients for seven years. I've never needed to prescribe birth control. In all those seven years Never felt like man. I wish I could prescribe birth control right now. That'd be real handy because we have a lot of good treatments for a lot of these conditions that do not require the use of the birth control pill.
Speaker 1:And, most of the time, women are feeling better and their husbands love it. So one condition I love to treat is premenstrual syndrome, pms. You know that we all talk about because everyone thinks women are crazy right before their period.
Speaker 1:You know? A funny aside my mom she one time I have three older. I have four brothers and three older ones Paul, steven and Michael. One time they they were really testing her. You know they were little and testing her and they go mom, you have PMS. And she looked at them and she goes you're right, I have Paul.
Speaker 2:Michael and Steven. Oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:And for my mom that's pretty quick yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or or either that. Uh, dr Teresa, she was thinking, man, someday I got to use this, right, you know. She was thinking, man, someday I got to use this. Right, yeah, right, finally, maybe she's planning it. Yeah, finally I get to use this.
Speaker 1:They're great guys. But here's the thing about PMS Everyone just thinks women are meant to be crazy Right before their period. They're going to get irrational, emotional, they're going to feel terrible. Actually, no, PMS is a sign of ovarian dysfunction. It's typically a sign of abnormal hormones and a lot of times when I treat patients for this, Wait, wait, wait, yeah, say that again.
Speaker 2:I think this is going to be really good, you know. So what's off here? So, yeah, no, it's a great.
Speaker 1:Typically there's a combination. So there's three hormones that are meant to be normal in the menstrual cycle Progesterone after ovulation, progesterone is created. Progesterone is a hormone. It does a few different things that are really important, and if a woman becomes pregnant, it continues to be made. So if she's not pregnant, it will drop off and then she'll have a period. So a period starts when that progesterone withdraws. Estrogen is an important part of the cycle and then one hormone that we can no longer evaluate is beta endorphins. So those three hormones play a big role, but in women with premenstrual syndrome, what you often find is that they are low in one, both or all three of those hormones, and progesterone is simply the major one.
Speaker 1:So the PMS is their symptom that something is wrong. Now, interestingly, women with infertility and a history of miscarriages have high rates of PMS because they have hormonal abnormalities and that is one of the contributing factors to their difficulty conceiving and or maintaining that pregnancy, and they feel so poorly. You know, before their period starts, and then you know what happens is how does PMS impact the woman? Well, a lot of times she takes it out on her husband or her children, and when I treat women for PMS. I will ask them does it make you feel like a terrible mother and they will say yes or a terrible wife? They say yes because these are the people I love the most and they're the ones I take it out on. I've had women tell me that their coworkers notice how bad their PMS is. So think about that.
Speaker 1:So let's say a woman has really terrible PMS. A birth control pill isn't necessarily going to fix that. Okay, it's not the right type of hormones. It's not the right type of hormones at the right time of the cycle either. And so now you have a woman who already feels terribly physically and she realizes how she's acting towards her loved ones. But then you've got a husband who has no idea what's going on with his wife and she switches on him in a moment and he might think this woman, I can't believe I married her.
Speaker 1:Where does that take them? And so I often in all seriousness, but also joke that we could change the world if we just treated PMS, because we would build healthier relationships, people would feel better. It is a cause of infertility and miscarriage. So there's a lot of things you know are the woman's moods are related to a lot of those hormones and you know the woman feels like she's a terrible person. I just tell them it's your ovary is not working right. It's actually not you as a person, but it's your ovary. So you know we need to fix that. Um, and most of the time they feel better. It might not be 100, but they feel significantly better and that's important.
Speaker 2:Yes, amazing, you know. The other thing is and I'm afraid to go here, but just so people know they've had three or four miscarriages and they weren't able to get pregnant. When I mentioned that they should reach out to an April doctor and I said, you know, let's have this conversation afterwards because you know I don't want to take the time sometimes in that talk, but I just said there's ways that they can help you and understand the underlying issue there. You want to just touch on that.
Speaker 1:You know, without you don't have to go too deep with that. No, I mean, it's great. I mean so when it comes to our fertility, women know that they're designed to have babies. Like part of our design is to become pregnant and have babies. And so when it doesn't work, whether that's infertility or the inability to carry your pregnancies and have recurrent miscarriages, that actually is a big cross for women that suffer from. So when that happens, we know that there's something wrong, there's something causing this, because normal fertility that should never happen. And so with infertility, what we find is a lot of women have endometriosis, abnormal hormones but guess what? That crosses over a lot to women with miscarriages hormones, but guess what? That crosses over a lot to women with miscarriages. So women with miscarriages also have high rates of endometriosis, hormonal abnormalities and other conditions that basically create an environment that is not supportive of that pregnancy and you know, kind of protecting that new life. And so we need to really work at figuring out. We don't know all the causes, but we know quite a few causes of recurrent miscarriage and you have to work at it and you got to dig in and figure out what is the underlying cause and, to the best of our ability.
Speaker 1:How can we treat it? You know and address it, and when you start treating conditions that way, you know it ends up happening as you start asking more questions. We were talking about questions at the beginning. I have some patients that are real puzzles to me right now and it's like these are the questions I need answered, but they're not answering the medical nature. You know. And one thing I love about NAPRO technology is I do think in many ways it's going to allow us to solve a lot of these questions, because what it does is it forces us to actually address the problem and we really have to think when we practice medicine this way, to actually address the problem. And we really have to think when we practice medicine this way. And I can come up with 10 new questions in a day when I'm looking at these conditions and they're not answered. So how are we gonna work at answering them? How are we?
Speaker 1:gonna try to solve it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the doctors so often again in Illinois, especially in the Chicagoland area, it's all IVF, I mean they want to put you on, you know, and it's a huge cost. First of all, it certainly isn't a high success rate. Unless you're doing it over and over again, obviously, you know the success rates will go up. But they're still not getting to these underlying issues and often they'll still even miscarry then. And so a NAPRO doctor is at least going to work with you to say let's get your body healthy, let's figure out if there's other issues going on and let's try to heal you up right and get your you know hormones stable, make sure you don't have endometriosis. So this is just such a better way to go.
Speaker 2:And unfortunately for those trying to make a living on this, it's much less expensive, right? I mean, what you're doing is much less expensive and there's some sacrifice involved on the doctor's side, Because I meet NAPRO doctors all the time just talking to them, and they're passionate about really helping women. It's a whole different person, a doctor. When you talk to NAPRO doctors, I would suggest everybody at least go in and meet with one, at least, you know, initially. You know you can always, you know, try other things later on, but you're going to meet some real beautiful human beings, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it's great you think that way. I mean because ultimately we're here to serve and help take care of people and you know. Going back to IVF, you know there are a lot of issues with IVF and we actually know that pregnancies that arise from IVF have higher complication rates and higher anomalies, actually not even related to some issues a lot of birth defects associated with IVF. So when you think about IVF, one, one way we talk about it here, yes, um, yeah, there's research that shows that.
Speaker 1:Um, one thing we talk about at the Institute a lot, you know. We know that infertility is not the diagnosis. Infertility is a symptom. So that body is telling you it can't become pregnant for a couple of reasons. One the body is sick, or maybe the woman is an ovulating, or the husband doesn't have sperm, maybe there's or the tubes are blocked, like there's a physical roadblock there. But when you are putting so, if you don't figure out why the woman's body is sick or the man's body is sick and you do IVF but let's keep it to the woman for a second and you skip the process of figuring out why they're not getting pregnant, then you force a pregnancy on a body that's sick. We should anticipate bad outcomes because that body is telling you I should not be pregnant right now. I have endometriosis, I have hormonal issues.
Speaker 2:There's a reason I'm not pregnant.
Speaker 1:So it's telling us that there's issues and we skip the issue and we're like, well, let's just get to the end result. And that's really a terrible way to go around, because whenever we take shortcuts and we just try to get the result we want, guess what it never works out well. I mean, how many times have we taken a test and we're like I'm going to get an A on this test?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't study at all, then why would I be surprised to get a D on that test? Because I didn't study, I didn't prepare, but I wanted the A, you know? Or let's say, somebody cheats on their test to get the A. Well, guess what? You might get caught. There might be issues. You know bigger penalties if you had just prepared for that test. So whenever we try to skip to the end result that we desire without the work and without the due diligence we need to give it in between, we're going to ask for results that are not what we anticipated. So the anticipated result of IVF is pregnancy, but there's a lot of negative issues there that doesn't get talked about. Actually, it's really. There's a lot of negative issues there that doesn't get talked about. Actually, it's really. There's a lot of issues with IVF and there is an ethical component to it, but there's medical issues with it, financial issues, there's a lot of issues that have developed from it.
Speaker 2:We're going to wind down on your time here.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Two things I'd like to ask you, and again, we can go very quickly with this and we're going to try to get you back. I know it's not easy to get you back, but I work on, sue, I work on your mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's the best, she's so precious yeah, but for people that are, you know, on the pill, you know, talk about the other side, real quick, talk about you know we have a natural way. You know that if you have to put off having children, for whatever reason, that is that this works. You know the success rate or the prevention rate. Isn't it as high as taking the pill or very close? Right, I mean the stats when you're practicing natural family planning to avoid. Now, on the other hand and the second thing is, just before you go, you got to give me some uh, you know, uh, resources and and Institute you know in the website there, but if they have questions and stuff, and then if there's any particular resources that you like on IVF and or NFP, if there's any favorites you have, because people always say where do I start, you know looking for?
Speaker 1:this. Well, I think you know they're really good questions and one of the things too is, you know, when we're Catholic, everyone thinks that we're going to have 10 or 12 children, and that is actually the decision between the husband and the wife. So some people they actually do need to avoid and they've chosen a smaller family, for whatever reason, and you never know why that might be. And real quick, on the flip side, sometimes people choose that big families and a lot of times when you see a big family people assume that well, after the third child they just didn't know what they were doing and had eight unexpected children after that. I'll tell a quick story about that. I won't be too long. But I had a medical student with me one day, an infertility patient, come in and I happened to ask her well, if you could get pregnant, how many children are you guys discussing, like, would you like? And she said four. And to me four is not bad. I mean, I was one of five. Four is very normal to me.
Speaker 1:The next day he runs up to me because we're in the operating room. He goes Dr Hilgers, dr Hilgers, I have to ask you a question. And his eyes got big. He goes and I'm like, oh no, what, what, what, what, what does he need? Answer? He goes do people really want four children? He could. It astounded him that actually people were choosing to have four because he goes. All I know is people who want one or two, that's it. I've never heard anyone actually say they want four. So you know, really it's, the decision to have more children is between the husband and wife, and it is it should be a prayerful decision too. As a physician, my job is to tell them if they have a serious medical reason to avoid. I have to tell them those things, but it's not my decision how many children they're going to have.
Speaker 2:So people use and just to stop you for a second because you're making such a good point, the Catholic church never said we're going to get involved in how many children you have. Right, we always say pray on this, discern. Go see your priest if you want to hear more about that. But it was never about how many children or not you're going to have. It was always about the incredible beauty of the sacrament where two people are pouring themselves out in lovemaking and there's no barrier there, right, there's nothing. So I talk about that a lot, so I won't make you go there, but that's a great point that people should understand that this is not the Catholic teaching is not about how many children you should have.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right, and if you want to talk about true freedom, freedom is understanding what your cycles are doing. So you and your husband or husband and wife, whichever way, whoever is the one thinking about it you have the ultimate decision as to whether or not you're going to have more children or not, and that's actually freedom.
Speaker 1:The birth control is not green. So when it comes to the crate model, for example so I had mentioned that women with normal fertility, or couple, I should say couples with normal fertility 76% of them will become pregnant the first cycle. They try or use days of fertility, but if you want to avoid pregnancy, the effectiveness at avoiding pregnancy is 96.8%. The birth control pill is actually 91%. So it's actually given birth control pill and wait now, let's, let's, let's, let's.
Speaker 2:It's another deep breath for everybody to listen. Right, that this is somewhere around a four or five. Is that about five percent is? Is that what? That is the math.
Speaker 1:So so when you look at yeah, so it's 90 higher, higher yeah it's higher, so 96.8 effective with the crate and you do work with the teacher so you learn how to understand your cycles, how to interpret it.
Speaker 1:So that's important that there's a teacher involved, um a trained professional who understands this. But the birth control pill, it is out there. Um, even if you go to cdc, nine out of a hundred women will have an unexpected pregnancy who are on the birth control pill. So that's 91 percent right um Avoiding or. So 9% will become pregnant, so 91% effective at preventing pregnancy is how they determine.
Speaker 1:Now, depending on what form of contraception, you can go higher. I mean, they love to advocate for IUDs and that's a whole nother discussion. Actually, iuds have a lot of issues. They're potentially even more abortifacient than birth control pills. So there's an ethical side, especially for those who might be pro-life. The IUD has different. Its mechanism actually really works on thickening this cervical mucus, but also thinning the lining of the uterus. Ovulation rates are actually still quite high on women with IUDs because it's more of a local effect. So one of the arguments against them, ethically and morally, is that you could potentially cause an abortion by preventing that baby from implanting. But again, I think it goes deeper than just that. So actually, you know, when it comes to natural family planning, you know I mean for years what they called it. Well, the old rhythm method. Right, what was it? The vatican roulette? I mean all these names which didn't work.
Speaker 2:Well, it didn't work.
Speaker 1:No, it didn't work well and you know what rhythm wasn't going to work well. When you look at how rhythm was designed it's and you understand the fertility of and the menstrual cycles, you can say, yeah, no kidding, that was never going to work. But do you know that we've made so many advances in the last 50 years and a lot of it related to my parents' work with Create Model and Napro Technology that we in fact even have a way where we can avoid pregnancy, allow couples to avoid pregnancy with 100% effectiveness. So for those couples who have a serious, serious reason to avoid, there is a way to naturally or to monitor your cycles and avoid pregnancy with 100 percent confidence. And you don't need to be sterilized, you don't need to be on the birth control pills for that. And my dad actually published this in I think it was a Lineker quarterly. I think that's correct.
Speaker 1:I think it was 2019 off the top of my head, but, um, you know, that's just a few years ago where we had 600 cycles of women who had reasons avoid, and what they did is they did a blood test to confirm that they were after ovulation and then all acts of intercourse occurred. After that, not one pregnancy occurred. And so you know, we had to help our patients. There are couples out there who really should not become pregnant and they need a moral way to do that. And so you know the other thing too. I know I'm kind of you could take me down the rabbit hole, but the other thing too is for our priests.
Speaker 1:You know it's important for us to support our priests so that when they talk to couples like, look, you shouldn't be on the birth control pill, it's against Catholic teaching. We need to also give them good medicine that they can say go talk to this doctor, they can help you. Because I feel like sometimes our priests, you know, they get stuck, like this couple is in a serious, this is a serious issue. But how am I going to help them? I don't know. And their doctor is saying put them on the birth control pill. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So if we can help each other, you know, Dr Teresa, this is exactly why we're doing this today. Yeah, I mean, this is a main reason is to help these conversations, because these conversations are not elevator speeches.
Speaker 1:You know Right.
Speaker 2:And so you need someone like you to kind of help them unpack this. And so think about a priest today, like you to kind of help them unpack this, and so think about a priest today. I'm going to reach out to my, my priest community, our priest community, and make sure they have this because they can say, you know, before you come in for your next session, you know pre-cain, you know kind of thing Right, and he's meeting with a couple before they get married. He can say go watch this video, go watch this podcast, go listen to this podcast and then come in my office. That helps. Look how that helps you really provide. By doing this and taking the time today, you really provide a gift to those priests.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, and it's just so important that we help each other. We want to support. You know, the Catholic church is completely correct on its current teaching of contraception. Just, I want to be very clear. The church was correct and is correct. There's no need to change its teaching. What happened with Humanae Vitae? Humanae Vitae everyone, real quick. I know we're going to go long, but Humanae.
Speaker 2:Vitae. If you're okay're okay, I'm okay, I'm more. I was worried about you. This is no, I'm okay for a little bit, um, okay but um, I'll keep it short.
Speaker 1:But you know, humanity everyone take your time. Take your time, okay um, you know everyone from what my parents tell me. Everyone thought that the birth control pill was going to be accepted by the catholic church in the 1960s, and a lot of people within the church, I think, even did. They had a birth control commission. All this but Pope Paul VI.
Speaker 2:Overwhelmingly supporting. You know the pill. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:So, pope Paul VI, you know, sometimes when you wonder, you know about the Holy Spirit and all that, I'm telling you. I think Humayun Vitae, that was Holy Spirit guided, because this man had everyone telling him you need to reverse the teaching, but he didn't. And I would actually encourage everyone to read Humanae Vitae because it's actually a very beautiful document and there's definitely he foretold some things that have come true.
Speaker 2:I think in number 17,. If somebody wants to have a cheat sheet, pull it up, you can just pull it up at the Vatican's website. I think, right, Go to number 17. You go, holy cow. How did anybody know this before? It happened?
Speaker 1:It all happened and, like my dad likes to say, back then there weren't really great, a lot of great methods of natural family planning. A lot of it was the rhythm, you know in the fifties and the Billings I'm going to draw a blank when they first started, but they were the first method. Probably that really looked. My dad's a better historian on this than I am, so I might, maybe I'll skip that, so I don't say the wrong dates and offend anyone.
Speaker 1:But you know, really the Billings Method was a great start, you know, in a lot of ways. But what I want to just talk about real quick is kind of the power of saying yes and to saying strong. So Humanae Vitae. Pope Paul VI. Obviously. Clearly this was a major stand up moment for him, where he really stood against the crowd on this one.
Speaker 2:And he wrote a beautiful document. He struggled, yeah, yeah, he really struggled with it.
Speaker 1:And you know my dad was a medical student and he's probably told this story. But he was a medical student and knew that the church was potentially going to change um, they're teaching on the birth control and when he he might be taking out and they did not change it. So my, my dad, you know, kind of a curious mind. He is wanted to read about it. And when he went to his Newman Center at the University of Minnesota, the chaplain there, when he asked for a copy of it, said well, what do you want to read that trash for? Okay. So my dad was like, okay, well, that's not going to work.
Speaker 2:Isn't that?
Speaker 1:something, yeah. So he found an ad in the newspaper I think it may have been the Minnesota Tribune, but I couldn't tell you because he was in the Twin Cities at the time from the Knights of Columbus where if you sent in, I think, a quarter, you would get a copy of Humanae Vitae. So that's what he did and he read it and when he read it it changed his life. And because of Humanae Vitae, that's what got my dad doing more research in the natural methods and then he, along with my mom, diane Daly and Ann Preble, developed the Crate model and from Crate model we have Napro technology.
Speaker 1:None of that would have happened if Humanae Vitae and the Catholic Church had not stayed true to the teaching. Church had not stayed true to the teaching and I can tell you, as a physician practicing Napro technology, this is the best way to take care of women and their healthcare. It's so fulfilling. Granted, it can be frustrating as all get out because there are still conditions we don't understand. We're still learning, but we know so much about what's going on with the woman's body and it's just a beautiful way to practice medicine. It's respectful of the woman and her dignity as a human person. If she's married, it's you know. It respects her marriage and her children and so, but I often think about man. It all started with Humana Vitae, and if that never happened, Wow, I got goosebumps.
Speaker 2:When you're saying that, I really did, I got goosebumps. Usually that's a Holy Spirit moment to me. I really mean it when I'm talking to somebody and I feel that it's like a Holy Spirit, just like pushed on my spine a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yes, no this is important.
Speaker 2:This is good.
Speaker 1:Well, and sometimes, who was the person who one time said what the Catholic Church is so for thinking everyone thinks it's old fashioned. There's somebody famous said that. I can't remember who it is. I'm terrible with stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was probably somebody like GK Chesterton, but probably somebody like that. Yeah, yeah, I have to, I think.
Speaker 1:I think Pope Paul six was for thinking on the teaching of contraception, oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, and look at.
Speaker 2:John Paul's theology. The body came out of that. Yeah, you know, it was really. How do I explain this biblically?
Speaker 2:Right, you know and then the beauty and the power of that to understand that that lovemaking between a man and a woman is really making visible the Trinitarian love story. The father who gives his love to the son and the son receives that, and the beauty of that comes out in the form of a person. And a man making love to his wife and his wife receives that, and the beauty of that sometimes comes out in the form of a person. You know, we are a tiny sacramental reflection of Trinitarian love in the world. When people get this and the grace comes into their marriage. I mean, I know people that had no idea what the church's teaching is and you're in a conversation with them and they go.
Speaker 2:I know when my marriage got bad, I know why I got divorced and I would say, well, why and how did you know he goes? It's when we started to contracept and he goes. It took me a while to look back on it, but that's exactly what happened and I know it. And I and you know when you start to unpack these issues that you and I are talking about, they go. Ah, okay, now I understand. But even though I knew it already, Well, I think, with contraception.
Speaker 1:So when we talk about the side effects of contraception, so there are the medical side effects and how the woman feels physically, but there are side effects far more reaching than even that that hit the relationships, hit our society, hit how the woman probably looks at herself, how the man looks at women. You know, I mean, there's so many things that it's just a ripple effect. So, you know, it takes a lot, though, because you have to educate people and you know, and that's what we really try to do with Crate Model and NAPRA technology there's a lot of education involved, a lot of explaining. You know we're, we, we are very open with, with couples and our patients when it comes to you know, their bodies and all that. And it's just, it's really you, you know I some people might say I'm biased because my dad, you know, is the one who developed NAPRA technology.
Speaker 1:You're just saying that because he's your dad. Well, yes, I mean, they'd be fair to say that. Right, like, how many times would we say, well, my dad, you know, it's wrong on all of this, but actually I get to experience it every day with how I practice medicine and I can tell you that it is a beautiful way to practice medicine and there's so much good that comes out of it. And many times not all the time, but when we take care of women with infertility, for example many times I don't need to help them with their second or third baby, and sometimes I have to help them with every pregnancy. And then sometimes I have seen girls come to me when they're high school or college age Now I'm old enough where they've gotten married and they had issues and you know what. They are informed. They know I might have a higher chance of struggling to get pregnant and if they don't get pregnant they come to us really quickly and then we just figure out what's the last steps.
Speaker 2:What's going on now?
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, and then we just figure out what's the last steps and tell them achieve a pregnancy. And then they achieve a pregnancy and so that infertility battle gets truncated. But they're already aware I might struggle and that. But they know ahead of time because we already started digging into these issues before they ever got married which I think is important too.
Speaker 1:And then their husbands are informed, you know, get the husband involved. And we think it's very important for the husband and the wife to understand that fertility, you know it takes two, and I mean God too, right, so really it takes more than two. But if you think about when we deal with infertility and miscarriages and all that, every life truly is a miracle, because when everything works perfectly, we have a new, new life. But one or two things go off and it can be so hard, and it's amazing how many things have to happen for one life to be created. And I think it gives you a different appreciation too for every child that's born.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we realize what a miracle we all are. Huh yeah.
Speaker 1:God bless. You know, this was such a miracle. We all are huh. Yeah, god bless, that was really amazing.
Speaker 2:You know this was such a treat. God bless you and thank you so much again. I really appreciate your time. I mean, you know it was invaluable. Are there any resources off the top of your head, dr Teresa, as far as finding NAPRO doctors? Dr Teresa, as far as finding NAPRO doctors, and also if somebody wanted to investigate some of these issues. You know, again, ivf, or you know fertility or natural family planning.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a so a few websites off the top of my head. If you want to find like a crate mom, practitioner or a certified medical consultant, fertilitycareorg is a website that has a lot of, so you can search for a teacher by location and you can see on the website Fertilitycareorg and I'll get these in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Of course, the St Paul's Institute website and you can always call us if you're trying to find somebody. And then, actually, if you're looking for a surgeon who is trained in surgical NAPRA technology, there is a website with surgeons on there called spsurgeons S-U-R-G-E-O-N-S dot org and there's a list. There aren't very many of us who are trained there's less than 30 of us around the country who do what we do, surgically speaking, for endometriosis and that but anyway, we have this postgraduate fellowship training and that's what I'm pretty involved in teaching these young OBGYNs how to do good surgery that's protective and respectful of the reproductive organs and treats the condition correctly and respectful of the reproductive organs and treats the condition correctly.
Speaker 2:So you obviously have people then traveling from out of state to come visit you, don't they? I mean? If somebody's in Illinois? Do they go to Omaha?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've had patients from every state in the United States come to us, and we've actually had patients from other countries come to the United States. In fact, from multiple continents I know for sure Europe, south America and Africa. We've had patients travel to have surgery with us. We have some from Canada who come see us as well, and so it's obviously there's a need for more of us. But those are a few good websites, I think, to start.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:The other thing, too is we do we do research here at the Institute and my dad has a summer research program. So a lot of times we have college students who need a summer job, who are interested in research, and they can contact us and we can see if there's an opening available. But we've had a lot of summer research interns come here. So we're very interested in research because we have a lot of questions that still need to be answered. We want to continue to get better with everything. Right? I mean that's no one knows all the questions, all the answers to all the questions right now, right.
Speaker 2:But how do?
Speaker 1:you learn you got to seek the truth, right yeah, you do and you know what.
Speaker 2:And again, just to reiterate, people are realizing in general that the doctors they're going to don't always know that much. You know, we assume because when you say that you say that humbly, right, you know, we're still searching for answers. People don't realize the average doctor they go to doesn't know everything either. As I started asking questions to some of these doctors, they go Jack, we don't know. You know the person comes in with, you know the pharma company representative comes in here. He's the one that's teaching me how to use this pill for whatever I mean, for whatever cause I'm not talking about fertility and stuff but in general those doctors don't know everything.
Speaker 2:You know they're doing the best they can, but they they also get information from the CDC and other places and that may not be true either. So, look at, we should all step back and be a little more humble and and uh and do the best we can, like you said to to, to bring the best we have to and and and and, as often as possible, to let the body naturally help, you know, help the body heal itself. You know I mean that's really the underlying issue.
Speaker 1:I like to say sometimes you know we have with NAPRA technology, we have patients chart their cycles and I always say the chart doesn't lie. But sometimes we don't understand what it's telling us Like, and a lot of times we do. Sometimes I can pick up a chart and I can oh, that was a stress cycle for that patient. I can tell you. And I asked him were you stressed this month? Like, how did you know?
Speaker 1:I'm like well, your chart tells me like this is different for you, this is abnormal, and so we know a lot about how to interpret the charts, but there are still things I think that chart is telling us that we're still trying to figure out. How do we answer that? How do we figure out why? Why is that there? But yeah, you know we have to be open and that's actually science. The whole point really of science is to ask questions. That that's, from the very beginning, the scientific method. You have to propose a question and how you're going to answer it.
Speaker 1:You might be wrong and you might be right, and none of us are right 100% of the time, except my dad, when I do the opposite of what he tells me. I hope he doesn't watch this because he won't let me forget that I said that.
Speaker 2:No, we're going to make him watch it, dr Teresa. Hey, god bless you. Thank you so much, thanks again and thanks for the information, and we'll get this out to you. Thank you so much. Thanks again and thanks for the information and, uh, it's, it's we'll, we'll get this out to you. It's probably gonna uh, just so you know. In fact, I'm going to stop recording and I'll just tell you in just a second and, thanks to everybody that's joining us on the program today, I'll have everything that, uh, that Dr Teresa just outlined as far as these websites and things, in the show notes, and then, you know, I'll probably poke around and maybe even add the podcast that we did previously with Dr Hilgers. You can get even more information. You know, those are great podcasts. They never go out of tune, you know, because we're talking about truths that don't go away, you know. So, all right, hey, god bless you. Thanks everybody.